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W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2007, 12:25:17 AM »
Nyk thanks for the clarification on your backround and others in the team.  As well as the breakdown in costs for the project.  Figures that the local media seem to have been unable to breakdown as cogently as you have here.  

As a long time resident, I still maintain that one of the challenges will be to gain broad acceptance of the project by locals.  Whether it be the lack of understanding by locals of the 'walking only' policy or the perception that the course was built for tourists and not local residents.  Obviously, critical acclaim and financial success would provide potent ammunition in defeating these attitudes.  

Finally low self esteem or not, this is a bold project driven by a government spending a great deal of taxpayer money.  Many of the personalities involved are very powerful which has lead to some heated and critical comments, including some by me.The final project has exceeded many of our expectations.  I would hope that in part the critical success of this project was aided by some of these frank discussions and I wish Chambers Bay, Pierce County and the sewer district all the best as the course opens.  

I look forward to meeting you.




Jesse Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2007, 12:26:20 PM »

Nyk,

  It was nice to meet you last week. You have a helluva course.
   As someone who's lived most of his life near CB, let me tell you a little more about the "low self esteem" issue.
   People here have been told for a long time that where they live is not quite good enough. Long time residents have a resentment for most of the Seattle area, the reason is unclear, but it is there.
    So in Tacoma you have a "we" attitude. Seattle might great, but we're better than them. Outside of a few neighborhoods in Tacoma, people of all races and economic levels get along.
     In fact I covered a Bloods gang in East Tacoma that had white, black and native american members in it.    
     The point I'm getting to is that this golf course has the appreance that it is only for the rich.
      Folks flinched at the cost and the green fee.
      But it may be the only project of its kind that I remember that was designed to put a spotlight on Tacoma.
      Yeah there's the Tacoma Dome. But so what.
      Folks here just don't get golf, or what this course can do for the area.
      Nyk, it will take time. The trail was a good idea, some school field trips to the place will also help. There is so much to learn from GCA. The key is, once you get people to walk the place, the attitude will change. It is a beautiful site, something Tacomans should be proud of. I was skeptical until I walked it. Now I'm CB's biggest fan.
       
     

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2007, 07:40:04 PM »

In building the course each of the 240 acres that the course sits on needed to be handled. Prior mining operations had left the land scarred and in a state that was severely out of balance with nature. During the construction 1.5 million cubic yards of sand were trucked to a southern portion of the site, screened, and used to cap the course after shaping.


The  Mining Site Aerial
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2007, 02:19:40 PM »
I've had a few days to reflect since coming back from the great Pacific Northwest, and to just sort of explain, while I am a Southern Californian at heart, the summers of my youth, at least three weeks to one month of it annually were spent in Oregon, with visits to the great state of Washington. I want to explain that there is some sentimentality and bias here.

With that, I feel very fortunate and lucky in the fact I've gotten to see two of the these states great courses before they opened: Pacific Dunes and Chambers Bay.

Without having to reprise in detail of just how great Pacific Dunes, and all of Bandon is for that matter, I think what is most important is the fact that you have one of the more commercially viable golf architecture firms, Robert Trent Jones II redirecting their energies and throwing their hat into an arena which they are in complete foreign territory, or at least, territory which places them into a class and style which they are unaccustomed too--the golf course connoisseur. (such as ourselves--the guys that will prod, nitpick and over-analyze a golf course to its most extreme.)

Chambers Bay is "our" kind of golf course.

This wasn't the best piece of property which to build a golf course, but it certainly has to be one of th more dramatic being that it's an old abandon quarry that from the top of it's bluff on the shoreline of Pugent Sound. It makes a perfect setting for the city chiefs to jump off of, should this elaborate scheme to build a municipal 'walking-only' course on the scale of what us purists would call a great golfing experience!

You see, Chambers Bay is built for people like us. The attention to detail of grasping the history of the site itself, as well as utilizing features which are not only 'golfable,' but are going to make us want to get back there again and again. However, I must warn that sites like this do have some quirks to them. In this case there is a hilly nature to Chambers that might set the tone to criticisms of it not being the best routing. You just look at the one corner of the property and say to yourself, "I have to play up to there?!?!" (It's really not that bad, as the routing more or less gently take you up to those points)

I think there is only one definitive way of answering this: I dare any city to build something similar and not face some sort of opposition that could render the entire project null and void. For that, I think the routing is about as good as it could get when considering that the non-golfing public was brought into mind for their hiking trails.

But this is a GREAT thing. The mixing of the public getting to actually walk near and around the course and see others play--similar to that of the Old Course of St. Andrews; the trains running back and forth along the front shoreline which are a unique part of the experience, and even the eventual building or rebuilding of the old pier to allow oats to tie-up and make there was about the place--something much bigger yet to come.

Given I was just off of the road after a 26 hour drive from Southern California, the course might have been like a dream or mirage to me, but given the experience, I'll do my best to explain what I saw and what I think.

If any of you like golf, then go to Chambers Bay. I can easily say that it's the best modern day municipally-owned golf course built--at least from what I've seen.

The opening hole, is going to be a killer--somewhat straight--STRAIGHT INTO THE SAME WIND that in 1938 was responsible for sending the nearby Tacoma Narrows Bridge aka Galloping Gerde, rocking back and forth to it's demise, when it eventually ripped itself apart and fell into the sound below. The fairway movement if reminiscent of that rocking back and forth nature, playing off of the huge sand hill, hence my thinking that it's a perfect name for the golf hole.

There is going to be plenty of movement at Chambers on the greens and throughout the fairways. It's going to be a roller coaster ride of excitement while playing golf, all the while giving you a view of the lower Pugent Sound that could produce a postcard so dramatic, that sales from it could fund Mike Keiser's next golf projects.

Some of the shaping is magnificent at Chambers Bay. Some of the tees look as if they were bought form a links course on the East Coast of Scotland and shipped over complete. There are other areas which you can tell, need to be given a little more time, but that would be nitpicking.

In trying to keep this short and sweet, Expect this course, make this course a must see on your next trip to Bandon or more. It's only about 2 hours max from Portland's airport and the drive up is  more then decent.

In closing, I want to add that your going to be hearing a lot about RTJII himself, being involved in this project--more then any in a long, long time. Being that I want to give credit where credit is due, I refuse to believe that. This golf course is like no other RTJII you've ever seen. So much, that it's obvious whoever Jay Blasi is, he has done a lot of studying, reading and shares a passion for the sport and it's history that far exceeds anything the Jones family has ever done or accomplished in their great and fortunate golfing lifetimes. However I do credit RTJII, Strawnie and Bruce for giving this kid his chance to prove himself. He certainly has built one hell of a golf course. At least of what my tired old eyes saw.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2007, 03:40:45 PM »
OK, so it seems crystal clear that Chambers Bay is a must see. And of course it seems criminal to go to that general area and not also go to Bandon.

BUT... how could one logistically combine those into one trip?  That's a LOT of driving, no? Obviously CB is one direction from PDX, BD the opposite.

So any ideas how to make the logistics of this work, for those unfortunate of us with limited time to devote to golf trips?

TH

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2007, 03:42:51 PM »
OK, so it seems crystal clear that Chambers Bay is a must see. And of course it seems criminal to go to that general area and not also go to Bandon.

BUT... how could one logistically combine those into one trip?  That's a LOT of driving, no? Obviously CB is one direction from PDX, BD the opposite.

So any ideas how to make the logistics of this work, for those unfortunate of us with limited time to devote to golf trips?

TH

Yahoo jet. Simple.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2007, 03:50:22 PM »
 ;D ;D
Oh would that life were so simple.  I'd be there tomorrow.

Outside of such fantasies though, well... of course we idiots drove to Bandon and back, which I found to be arduous but doable....

Adding Chambers Bay would seem to turn that arduous to unbearable.  And I'm not seeing a good way to do it via air either... one could do the PDX-N.Bend thing... then I suppose also flying from N-Bend to Seattle or some other WA airport... but that would seem to make it muy expensivo.

Maybe fly into Bandon, drive from there?  But it would seem to be 6 hours in the car at least from Bandon to CB.... that seems a bit arduous as well.

So help me out here - I want to dream a little - how can one make this work?


Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2007, 03:57:34 PM »
The only way I see it being doable is doing a long car trip, or flying into Portland or Seattle with a few day layover before you fly to Bandon.  

Tom Huckaby

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2007, 03:58:37 PM »
The only way I see it being doable is doing a long car trip, or flying into Portland or Seattle with a few day layover before you fly to Bandon.  

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured... not very realistic for the time-challenged.

SO OK, a separate trip to CB it is.


Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2007, 04:01:46 PM »
I am pleased to see the warm reception this course is getting. Jay has now opened the door for his rise in his chosen profession. It could not happen to a nicer guy. Well if he was a LSU Tiger rather than a Wisconsin Badger it might be better.

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2007, 12:41:23 AM »
Guys this is going to be a separate trip for you.  Let me lay a possible itinerary out for you.....Seattle to Tacoma for a couple of rounds at Chambers and one at The course no one is talking about yet in Dupont.  News is imminent.  

Then if you want yo can drive over the mountains playing Aldarra on the way and spending a night at Suncadia for a round or two there.  

There may , finally, be enough golf in the Puget Sound area to reach critical mass for golf travel.  

That is what Kemper, Pierce County and the taxpayers are hoping for.  

Sorry I missed Tommy when he was in town, but what he doesn't mention about Chambers is the hint of industrialism that matches this rising city.  In a near poetic way Chambers is a symbol of what Tacoma has been and what it may become.  

History has been unkind in the past, lets hope the past doesn't repeat itself.  Enough said

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2007, 01:40:52 AM »
Tommy, I would also say that at first blush a cartball golfer who is not used to the idea, may at first look overall onto the property and get a little skeptical about how walkable it really is.  In my walk with Nyk, I'd say it is not as difficult of a walk as Sand Hills.  The nature of many tees being a few yards just next to previous greens also shortens it up.  Transitions are easy, not steep climbs anywhere.  

Also, it is RTJ dos's name on the firm's door.  Just like it is Tom Doak's name first on their door.  They have very talented associates.  We all know those associates have had very strong influence in the firm's quality of work.  But, we refer to the project's principle archie by the top name on the door.

You don't see Denny Crain with his 'madcow' trying and winning the cases, do you?  If that were so, it would be Shorr, Crain, Poole, and Schmidt.  ;) ;D ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2007, 01:41:27 AM »
If I remember correctly, you have a choice of Doak, Peter Jacobsen, and the King at SunCadia. Don't remember if I have seen anyone comment on the merits of these other than Doak's Tumble Creek.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2007, 03:07:37 AM »
Bill,
I felt bad about that too!

We literally got into town, got the race car over to the track in Kent and then turned around and got our hotel rooms in Fife. Sean met me over at the race track and gave us a lift to our hotel, from there after not sleeping in well over 30+ hours--I actually had 3 1/2 hours sleep in like 42 hours--I was ready for hot shower to rejuvenate. It was during that time I was going to call you and just completely forgot. In fact I mentioned it to Sean just when we got to Chambers. (boy did I felt like a idiot!)

Afterwards we went to dinner at El Gaucho in Downtown Tacoma (Ultra cool place and I loved old town Tac)  If old downtown Tac is anything like what they have planned for the rest of the city, what a great place to live and work.

All in all, my friend Steve even said this, every one in Tacoma/Fife/Kent seemed like the most genuine people one could ever meet. People were very friendly and it's nice to see the smile on people's faces when the sun comes out. It was a beautiful weekend.

I can hardly wait to get back up there, and after some discusson tonight, it looks like we'll be up there sooner then expected, more then likely in Mission B.C., Spokane, Kent (again) and Boise, Idaho.

Dick,
I reiterated your same setiments today when I talked to Nyk. The attention to keeping the green to tee walks at a minimum, where you can more or less climb without really knowing it really works. at Chambers Bay. It's just people will be down there and they'll look-up and just think WOW! when they see what looks to be a series of holes up high. Still, I think the routing works.

Sorry for the off-topic pics. That's me with my hands covering  my ears!





Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2007, 09:59:51 AM »
Tommy, that car was sweet and loud and fast and -- well, it was pretty cool seeing it.

I would be proud of it.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2007, 10:22:29 AM »
Note to Pat Mucci:  even one of the moderators seems to have no issues with OT posts.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Damn cool dragster, Tommy.  And you make a fine addition to any pit crew I'm sure.

 ;D ;D

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2007, 10:40:21 AM »
Seattle to Tacoma for a couple of rounds at Chambers and one at The course no one is talking about yet in Dupont.  News is imminent.  

Cos,

Look forward to that report as I'd like to see both courses when I'm in Seattle in August.  When does the Dupont course open?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2007, 11:56:55 PM »
Dupont has no scheduled opening and no name(I favor Nitro Ridge), although it has been playable for nearly a year.  Designed by Mike Asmundson it sits on the Dupont dynamite works site near Ft Lewis.  Opening has been delayed by interaction with the EPA.  

While not as spectacular as Chambers, it can stretch to 7500 yards, has views of either Puget Sound, Mt Rainier or the Olympic mountains on every hole and I believe will rival Olympic at Gold Mountain as the highest rated affordable course in Washington.

It plays hard and fast is wide open to the winds that cross the bluff it sits on.  

Final purchase bids were accepted several weeks ago.  While I am unable to make any announcement, I do know that an announcement will be made soon as to the name of the purchaser who has been notified of their winning bid.  The course should open at very nearly the same time as Chambers.  They need some kind of clubhouse and at least one bathroom on the front side.  I will do my best to let people know when final announcements are made.

Tacoma and environs should have a very exciting year for golf!

« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 12:02:51 AM by W.H. Cosgrove »

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2007, 06:07:48 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks it looks a bit artificial and overdone? Looking at the pictures on the website made me think: yeah, this is how RTJ II would build a links course. I'm sure it's a great play, but visually a bit over-the-top.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2007, 07:21:03 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks it looks a bit artificial and overdone? Looking at the pictures on the website made me think: yeah, this is how RTJ II would build a links course. I'm sure it's a great play, but visually a bit over-the-top.

Ulrich

Pictures...new, still growing in....it's hard to say the above in this context, IMO.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2007, 07:54:58 PM »
Ulrich,
Is it a bit overdone?

Probably a little bit, especially when you see the rough duney areas which have been detailed in a way that I'm not familiar, but when looking at the stuff that has grown-in, it comes out very raw and natural looking. Proof of this for me was when walking off the back left of the green at #17, these areas are somewhat grown in, and they look good. Meanwhile the rest of the course is still growing in, but there is no denying what's in the ground as far as playability. It's far and away the firm's best work ever. At least in my opinion it is.

Crazy Joe is right though, the course needs some maturity but in about five or ten years everything will somewhat settle, more insight to the personality of the course itself--as far as maintenance practices--will be learned and I think the course will hold it's own.

I think they have a really good golf course here, at least of what I saw of it.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2007, 10:35:50 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks it looks a bit artificial and overdone? Looking at the pictures on the website made me think: yeah, this is how RTJ II would build a links course. I'm sure it's a great play, but visually a bit over-the-top.

Ulrich

Artificial and overdone? Compared to say ... ANGC ... it looks extremely natural to me. However, I have only seen it from outside the boundary. Can hardly wait to get inside the fence.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Talk about Chambers Bay, wow!
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2007, 02:22:23 PM »
If I remember correctly, you have a choice of Doak, Peter Jacobsen, and the King at SunCadia. Don't remember if I have seen anyone comment on the merits of these other than Doak's Tumble Creek.



Garland,

I have played the Doak and the Palmer in the last two weeks.  Jacobsen's course is not open yet.

I look forward to playing Tumble Creek again, as it is an excellent course, with some of my favorite Doak greens that I have played to date.  The Prospector is just OK, and not worth the trip for that alone. I could not play it ever again and be OK.  Think North Woodlands at Sunriver....

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