"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn, the only thing I don't understand about your take is why you don't believe Goosen's stated intentions. If he believes he would be better positioned to reach the green with his hybrid than his 3 wood, why do you doubt him? He indicated he hit it well right of his intended line, and as we have seen many many times at Augusta, if you don't hit the proper line, you can lose great distance (like missing the turbo boost on the left fairway of #10). This missing of the intended line accounts for the dramatic difference from Dredge at least as much as the club selection.

What makes you think you know Retief's ability to properly place a 3 wood versus a hybrid than he himself?

George,

Fine. If he thinks he can get there. I will go along with him. In that case, the guy chose to hit a club that required him to hit a perfect or close to perfect shot and bring the creek considerably more into play. He chose this instead of hitting an average 3-wood out to the right. This adds up to and all-time stupid decision. If it wasn't the Masters, the announcers would have been all over him, but Faldo, Feherty and Kostis all made comments. None of them could believe it, you could just tell that they were holding back. So, it is not me questioning it. It is Nick Faldo. A short hitter that won 3 more Masters than Goosen will win with that strategy.

[Glenn Spencer]

So you don't care at all about the topography? You would rather have a hook stance to a fade green than a potentially more level stance?

I'll take Goosen's understanding of his own skillset over yours any and every day of the week. The man has won TWO US Opens, one of which was arguably under the most difficult conditions of the last 10 years or so.

George,

You don't get it. You are not taking his side over mine. You are taking his side over 2500 people in the last 50 years that have played the hole. 2499 hit a wood. One didn't. You are taking his side over Nicklaus, Palmer, Faldo, Ballesteros and Spencer, not just Spencer. Don't you see that? You are taking 2 US Opens over 50. 0 Masters over 50. 0 British Opens over 50.

[CHrisB]

Whether or not you agree with Goosen's decision on #13 tee, I think it is refreshing to see a Sunday major where players were playing their own game rather than playing with the desperate "must beat Tiger somehow" mindset that we've seen from so many top players.

Zach Johnson kept his head down all day and ran to the finish line, playing to post a score and let Tiger shoot at it.

Retief Goosen played for a number that he thought would win the tournament, but didn't quite get there.

etc.

How many times have we seen the best players in the world put themselves under extra pressure on themselves because they think they have to play perfect golf to beat Tiger? And then they press, get tight, maybe take risks that don't come off, play shots that they're uncomfortable with or not committed to, and then back right out of contention.

I'd like to see more guys play like Johnson, Goosen, and others played yesterday. Play your game and see if it's enough.

[Glenn Spencer]

I agree with Zach Johnson. He played great and did keep his head down. He was just playing a golf tournament. It appears that it easier to do that when you are in search of respect. If you already have a great deal of respect, you are just not able to beat Tiger. This is where playing not to lose comes in. You can keep the way Goosen played. I want to see no more of that.

[Paul Stephenson]

So you don't care at all about the topography? You would rather have a hook stance to a fade green than a potentially more level stance?

I'll take Goosen's understanding of his own skillset over yours any and every day of the week. The man has won TWO US Opens, one of which was arguably under the most difficult conditions of the last 10 years or so.

George,

You don't get it. You are not taking his side over mine. You are taking his side over 2500 people in the last 50 years that have played the hole. 2499 hit a wood. One didn't. You are taking his side over Nicklaus, Palmer, Faldo, Ballesteros and Spencer, not just Spencer. Don't you see that? You are taking 2 US Opens over 50. 0 Masters over 50. 0 British Opens over 50.

10 Opens at Royal Liverpool.  How many golfers???  Only one chooses to play irons off the tees.  How is this not different?

The only golfer out of the 2500 that Goosen had to be worried about was Reteif Goosen.  He played the shot he thought would give him the best shot to win, and reach the green in two under his assessment.

Stupid is aiming a ball at a grove of trees and "hoping" you'll turn it over.  As other posts have mentioned, once it gets into those trees who knows what could happen.

I believe lemmings like to copy the actions of other lemmings...right off of cliffs.

[George Pazin]

So you don't care at all about the topography? You would rather have a hook stance to a fade green than a potentially more level stance?

I'll take Goosen's understanding of his own skillset over yours any and every day of the week. The man has won TWO US Opens, one of which was arguably under the most difficult conditions of the last 10 years or so.

George,

You don't get it. You are not taking his side over mine. You are taking his side over 2500 people in the last 50 years that have played the hole. 2499 hit a wood. One didn't. You are taking his side over Nicklaus, Palmer, Faldo, Ballesteros and Spencer, not just Spencer. Don't you see that? You are taking 2 US Opens over 50. 0 Masters over 50. 0 British Opens over 50.

About 2450 of those guys couldn't get around the corner with a hybrid. Times have changed.

It's not a 1 dimensional question. Which club can you work more? What happens if I go too long? What happens if I really mishit it? What are the wind/ground conditions like?

You can still factor in all of these things if you're going for eagle.

Maybe for Goosen, the perfect spot to go for the green is shorter, but hitting up the length of the green (think of where Freddie was when he hit that 3 iron in round 3 '98, the shot where he said "Oh baby, be right" and it was).

I wouldn't rely on most of those other guys, even Faldo. One thing I've noted from listening to them is how unable they are to divorce themselves from their own style of play. I remember Venturi going berserk a few years ago when Daly went for the 18th at TP in 2 out of the rough, or a fairway bunker or something, when he needed to make 3 to tie the lead. Venturi felt JD'd have a better shot at holing a 100 yard wedge. I knew Daly was going for the bunker, and sure enough, Daly blasted it up greenside into the bunker, and stated later that he felt he'd have a better shot at holing a bunker shot. I gotta think JD knew his game better than Venturi, much like I think Goosen knows his game better than you or any of the announcers.

[CHrisB]

So you don't care at all about the topography? You would rather have a hook stance to a fade green than a potentially more level stance?

I'll take Goosen's understanding of his own skillset over yours any and every day of the week. The man has won TWO US Opens, one of which was arguably under the most difficult conditions of the last 10 years or so.

George,

You don't get it. You are not taking his side over mine. You are taking his side over 2500 people in the last 50 years that have played the hole. 2499 hit a wood. One didn't. You are taking his side over Nicklaus, Palmer, Faldo, Ballesteros and Spencer, not just Spencer. Don't you see that? You are taking 2 US Opens over 50. 0 Masters over 50. 0 British Opens over 50.

Glenn,

I understand where you're coming from and maybe we're all underestimating the patience that someone like Retief Goosen has, even after seeing him win at Southern Hills and Shinnecock. But don't confuse patience with fear or stupidity.

The reason it is your side vs. Goosen's is because (1) given the same situation, with 2500 guys ahead of you having hit wood off the tee on #13, you would feel compelled to hit wood also while he did not, (2) you are sitting at your keyboard saying that you would have made a better decision than a 2-time U.S. Open champion, without even knowing what was going through his head, how he was feeling, what his history was, etc., and (3) Goosen explained what his reasoning was for hitting what he did on #13 and you say you don't believe him.

You're also ignoring every other shot he hit during the round (did you see the his 2nd shot on #7?), and his track record (how many players in the world could have putted like he did all day at Shinnecock? or come back to win the playoff at Southern Hills after what happened the previous day?).

I was watching Masters.org on Saturday when he came to the 13th tee, and he did hit a 3-wood, but he hit a weak block cut short-right. You could hear him sarcastically say "that was a beautiful golf swing" and then Fuzzy Zoeller saying "we'll find it, we'll find it". He has also sniped it left on #13 before and racked up some high scores there.

So he clearly seems to be uncomfortable with that shot right now, and frankly I think it would be a worse decision if he were to hit a shot he was uncomfortable with in that situation--sure, maybe he pulls it off, but if he attempts a shot he is not comfortable with there and makes 6 (or worse), then I don't think he could recover as well from that type of mistake.

Of course the commentators would question the decision--so did I--but where you want to say he's a "chicken" or "stupid" (how can someone of his playing record be either?), I say "he must have a pretty darn good reason--I wonder what it is?" He ended up giving his reason and I accept it and you don't.

[Glenn Spencer]

Chris,

It is not going to be much fun arguing with you, if you keep making quality posts like that one. I really don't have much to say in response. You pretty much summed it up.

Can I say this though? I am shocked that a top 2? 3? player in the world world back off hitting a 3-wood into a generous fairway. It shocks me beyond belief as you can probably tell.

As for the 2 time US Open champion stuff and my decision making. I don't get it. Chris Webber is a hell of a lot better basketball player than me or 100 of me, but that doesn't mean that I would have called timeout. I still get that I am sitting at my keyboard and he is finishing 2nd in the Masters. I get it. The decision he made resulted in a downhill, breaking putt that many don't make. Kelly had 18 feet for eagle and Woods had 3 feet for eagle. Harrington made eagle. Can you really tell me that Goosen is not questioning himself at this point?

[Glenn Spencer]

BTW, I don't know if I would say that I would feel compelled to hit a wood of 13 because 2500 other guys have, but I know that I would not choose tied in the final round to give it a shot for the first time in competition. The guy hit 3-wood in the 3rd round and 3-wood off the 14th tee in the final round. What other evidence is needed to determine that he was scared of the shot and therefore chicken?

[Bryan Izatt]

Glen,

Measuring the hole on Gogle Earth, it could play as a 275 yd drive down the left side leaving a 190 yd shot to the middle of the green.   The effective length on that line is 465, not 510 yards.  Depending on the wind the second would be a mid-iron for Goosen.  He said this is the way he strategized the hole.  He didn't execute the strategy.  How does that make him a chicken?

He hit a hybrid, not an iron.  Maybe you could correct you're myriad posts where you call it an iron.  Taylor Made offers two 2-iron equivalent hybrids - one at 14* and one at 16*.  He said his is a 1 iron equivalent, so could have been a little stronger loft.  Average 3W lofts are 13* to 15*.  I don't see any difference between hitting his hybrid and hitting a 3W.

We understand that in golf you are not a chicken.  But then maybe that's why you're posting on GCA and not finishing T2 at the Masters.

That is interesting, Bryan. I guess Goosen must be carrying 2 3-woods then.  No, he was carrying a 3 wood (so you say) and a hybrid. Not two 3 woods.  Not a 3 wood and a 1 iron.  Why do you want to keep obfuscating this point?  He sure hit a nice one off 14. You just don't get it. My golf is not in question here. The hole has been determined how to be played in the past.  Nope I don't get it.  You demean a person's courage and/or intelligence and you wonder why everyone questions your judgement and capability to make these judgements.  You're the archetypal Tuesday afternoon QB.  Until you've walked in the shoes you're in no place to judge. As to the previous players approach to playing the hole, you obviously will never find a breakthrough in anything in your life if you always do things the way it's always been done by others.  Tiger at Hoylake being an example of breaking the mould in golf terms  What I would do is irrelevant.

I see your Google Earth bit and if you don't want him called a chicken, then his decision still stands as one of the dumbest an athlete has ever made.  You see the Google Earth bit, but you don't accept that it was a viable go-for-it -in-two approach for Goosen?  I don't want to call him a chicken.  I don't know the man.  Even if I did I wouldn't call him, or anyone else a chicken.  How is it dumb for him to think he could hit a 275 yard hybrid draw shot on the hole?  The dumbest athletic decision of all time; that hyperbolic crap.   Think about it, we have one of the best in the world that is so afraid of hitting 3-wood that he decides to take a club that he needs to hug the left side of the creek, just to get home, that or he was laying up.  Who said he was trying to hug the left.  Working a draw around the slope seems like a more obvious approach. Either way, it is an abundantly stupid move. Don't forget, this strategy has NEVER been tried before, I think there is a reason. If that isn't playing not to lose, I don't know what is. It's playing to your strengths at that time, in that situation.  Of course in your mind playing to win means doing things exactly the way everbody has always done them.  And, I guess he needed to get there in two  so he could eagle because he should have known he needed eagle to win.  BTW, the man said it is a 1-iron equivalent, that makes it a 1-iron, not a 3-wood.  Actually it makes it a 14* hybrid, not a 1 iron or a 3 wood.  You're having a tough time with your comprehension on this thread.

[Glenn Spencer]

Bryan,

I can only ask the point so many times. What holes wasn't Tiger able to reach comfortably at Hoylake? Give me an answer to that and then you can say that he broke the mold. Until then, he just thought it prudent to play from the fairway and hit longer clubs into holes that don't have creeks in front of them. I have played in enough tournaments to know what Goosen was going through to some degree. Ask anyone that has played some serious golf and they will question why someone would hit an iron off a reachable par 5 hole while tied for the lead. 275 and then 190 as it was said earlier is not undisputed. He made the wrong choice and his score reflects it. He outthought himself. If you have played competitive golf at high levels, you know that if you 3-putt 12, taking an iron off the next tee which is reachable is a VERY cautious way to try and win. One might even call it chicken. It is unheard of in the history of the golf tournament. What are you defending exactly? He hadn't made a birdie since 8. He just 3-putted 12. Tiger is breathing down his neck and he is tied with Johnson. He hit 3-wood on 14 perfectly. He drove it perfectly off 9 and 10. He hit a reasonable drive off 11, missed left by 10-20 yards. What is there to be afraid of? Why now? Why make it hard on yourself? Why take 3 out of the equation. Why give yourself a tough putt for 4, when your are MORE than capable of having it for 3? He is swinging well and all of a sudden he doesn't think he can turn a 3-wood into a huge fairway? Doesn't make sense.

[JESII]

I have been waiting through this whole thread for you to just run a line of smilie faces across the board as an indication that you are joking...your position, and crazed defence of it is a joke in itself.

[Brent Hutto]

...maybe we're all underestimating the patience that someone like Retief Goosen has, even after seeing him win at Southern Hills and Shinnecock. But don't confuse patience with fear or stupidity.

That is such a succinct and insightful comment, Chris. I'll add my own non-succinct bits.

When Phil Mickelson attempts a staggeringly cocky shot under pressure don't you tend to ruefully think something like "Boy, that's a stupid chance to take but that's just Phil being Phil"? That's generally my take on it. Somehow it's not as easy for us armchair golfers to accept staggeringly patient choices Goosen's playing for his target score of +2 with a hybrid off the tee at thirteen. Unless of course it's Tiger in which case we assume he knows what he's doing like at Hoylake (easy to accept in retrospect since it was a huge success).

I'm a huge Retief fan, to the extent that given the chance I'd rather watch him play a round than Tiger or Phil or Ernie or any of the others. My take on him is that he is willing to put amazing pressure on his putting and on his iron play but always seems (relatively) leery of biting off too much with his tee shots. I know I'm reading minds here but I believe he doesn't mind having a 170-yard iron shot instead 120 if he can guarantee having a shot at the green. I think he feels like he can make a lot of birdies by hitting a good 6-iron to 12 feet and making the putt. Most players probably feel like it's worth taking chances to get within wedge range but I'm not sure he does.

[tlavin]

Goosen is one of the very best ball-strikers in the world with an iron in his hand.  We might question the wisdom of his choice of club off the tee, but we can't question whether he had as good a chance as anybody of hitting his second shot onto the green with an iron had he put the tee shot in the proper spot.

[Bryan Izatt]

Bryan,

I can only ask the point so many times. What holes wasn't Tiger able to reach comfortably at Hoylake? Are you disputing that Goosen could have comfortably reached 13 with hybrid, 4 iron?  He didn't, but that was an execution error.  Could have been the same with driver or 3W.   Give me an answer to that and then you can say that he broke the mold. Until then, he just thought it prudent to play from the fairway and hit longer clubs into holes that don't have creeks in front of them. I have played in enough tournaments to know what Goosen was going through to some degree.  Didn't you say this wasn't about you.  Ask anyone that has played some serious golf and they will question why someone would hit an iron Do you have trouble typing hybrid?  Or do you think a hybrid is an iron? off a reachable par 5 hole while tied for the lead. 275 and then 190 as it was said earlier is not undisputed. By saying "not undisputed" are you trying to say it is disputed?  Who was the "it" who is disputing the distances?  Would that it be you? What are you disputing?  That those aren't the right measurements?  That he can't hit it that far with those clubs?  He made the wrong choice and his score reflects it.   He made the right choice for him at the time and place.  He didn't execute the tee shot well enough.   He outthought himself. If you have played competitive golf at high levels, you know that if you 3-putt 12, taking an iron off the next tee which is reachable is a VERY cautious way to try and win. I'll accept it was cautious (not VERY), but then everone was over par for the tournament at that point.   The swashbucklers failed to win.  The other cautious player, ZJ, won.  So maybe Goosen was prudent in the situation.   One might even call it chicken. No one else is calling him a chicken, except you.  You really should try to stay in the first person with your comments.  It is unheard of in the history of the golf tournament. What are you defending exactly? He hadn't made a birdie since 8. He just 3-putted 12. Tiger is breathing down his neck and he is tied with Johnson. He hit 3-wood on 14 perfectly. He drove it perfectly off 9 and 10. He hit a reasonable drive off 11, missed left by 10-20 yards. What is there to be afraid of? Why now? To speculate - because he was more comfortable swinging his hybrid in that situation.  Reduce the margin of error.  Why make it hard on yourself? Why take 3 out of the equation. He didn't take 3 out of the equation.  His strategy was to go for it with hybrid, 3 iron.  Of course, you know he couldn't have done that ever. Why give yourself a tough putt for 4, when your are MORE than capable of having it for 3? How do you know where either putt would be from and whether it would be harder or easier unless he actually played both options?  He is swinging well and all of a sudden he doesn't think he can turn a 3-wood into a huge fairway? Didn't he say he wasn't comfortable with his swing?  Doesn't make sense. To you maybe.  What really doesn't make sense is you continually questioning the man's gonads and intelligence.

[Glenn Spencer]

I have been waiting through this whole thread for you to just run a line of smilie faces across the board as an indication that you are joking...your position, and crazed defence of it is a joke in itself.

JES,

You have been waiting this long and know you jump in say that my position and defense are crazed? Where did you learn that? Not exactly the normal way of doing things.

What part of my defense is crazed?

Would Nicklaus lay up on a par 5 off the tee in the final round of the Masters, while tied? How about Woods? Palmer? Player? Faldo? Ballesteros? You have played serious golf, you know what the players in the locker room are saying about him laying up off the tee on 13. How can you possibly say that I am crazed? IT IS THE FINAL ROUND OF THE MASTERS!!!! Nobody else has done it on the back nine of a major and I am crazed for calling it stupid? Explain that to me. The Final Round of the goddamn Masters. Did you not see Tin Cup? At least Simms hit driver off the tee.

[Glenn Spencer]

Bryan,

I can only ask the point so many times. What holes wasn't Tiger able to reach comfortably at Hoylake? Are you disputing that Goosen could have comfortably reached 13 with hybrid, 4 iron?  He didn't, but that was an execution error.  Could have been the same with driver or 3W.   Give me an answer to that and then you can say that he broke the mold. Until then, he just thought it prudent to play from the fairway and hit longer clubs into holes that don't have creeks in front of them. I have played in enough tournaments to know what Goosen was going through to some degree.  Didn't you say this wasn't about you.  Ask anyone that has played some serious golf and they will question why someone would hit an iron Do you have trouble typing hybrid?  Or do you think a hybrid is an iron? off a reachable par 5 hole while tied for the lead. 275 and then 190 as it was said earlier is not undisputed. By saying "not undisputed" are you trying to say it is disputed?  Who was the "it" who is disputing the distances?  Would that it be you? What are you disputing?  That those aren't the right measurements?  That he can't hit it that far with those clubs?  He made the wrong choice and his score reflects it.   He made the right choice for him at the time and place.  He didn't execute the tee shot well enough.   He outthought himself. If you have played competitive golf at high levels, you know that if you 3-putt 12, taking an iron off the next tee which is reachable is a VERY cautious way to try and win. I'll accept it was cautious (not VERY), but then everone was over par for the tournament at that point.   The swashbucklers failed to win.  The other cautious player, ZJ, won.  So maybe Goosen was prudent in the situation.   One might even call it chicken. No one else is calling him a chicken, except you.  You really should try to stay in the first person with your comments.  It is unheard of in the history of the golf tournament. What are you defending exactly? He hadn't made a birdie since 8. He just 3-putted 12. Tiger is breathing down his neck and he is tied with Johnson. He hit 3-wood on 14 perfectly. He drove it perfectly off 9 and 10. He hit a reasonable drive off 11, missed left by 10-20 yards. What is there to be afraid of? Why now? To speculate - because he was more comfortable swinging his hybrid in that situation.  Reduce the margin of error.  Why make it hard on yourself? Why take 3 out of the equation. He didn't take 3 out of the equation.  His strategy was to go for it with hybrid, 3 iron.  Of course, you know he couldn't have done that ever. Why give yourself a tough putt for 4, when your are MORE than capable of having it for 3? How do you know where either putt would be from and whether it would be harder or easier unless he actually played both options?  He is swinging well and all of a sudden he doesn't think he can turn a 3-wood into a huge fairway? Didn't he say he wasn't comfortable with his swing?  Doesn't make sense. To you maybe.  What really doesn't make sense is you continually questioning the man's gonads and intelligence.

Bryan,

Am I disputing that he could have reached with hybrid a nd 4-iron. I guess not. 280, leaves him 230 in and that would be a big 4-iron, but I can't dispute that, I guess. Mickelson and his caddie said there was a lot of wind at Winged Foot 18, but when I watched the telecast, the flag was LIMP. I don't think these guys necessary speak nothing but absolute truth. Could he have gotten there with a perfect hybrid and some long iron? I guess. This is where his logic completely falls apart. Why if not swinging well are you asking yourself to rip a hybrid down the left side by the creek and draw it and have it run perfectly to 215-220 at best? WHY? An average 3-wood to the right leaves you less than 200 in and I am crazed? The whole world hits 3-wood there.

It isn't about me, just responding to you saying that I have never hit an important golf shot. I don't care what you call his club 1-iron, hybrid or anything else. He has a 3-wood and he didn't hit it. I was saying that the measurements are somewhat in dispute. Not that he can hit his hybrid 275. How do you know that it was the right choice for him. He made a choice and made 5. What is right about it?  Reduce the margin of error? I agree completely. Pound the 3-wood down the right side like everyone else. If you don't completely snap hook into the creek, you are fine and can get home without any trouble or danger. Take the hybrid and the club must be hit PERFECTLY just to have a chance at pulling off a riskier shot than the original tee shot. Reduce the margin of error. Even if he puts it in the creek, he can still make 5. Percentages, percentages, percentages. How do I know what he was going to have? I don't, but the hole has been played a lot of times to the same pin and about 1 out of 20 stiff that 3rd shot to that pin. Wasn't comfortable? Okay, why take the route where you have to hit a perfect tee shot and a perfect second shot instead of two reasonable ones? Like I said, it doesn't make sense. His gonads and intelligence. It is a sport and entertainment, when someone does something that 2500 haven't, I feel it makes sense to question both.

[JESII]

Glenn,  

You sitting in front of your computer second guessing a guy with his resume is stupid...the way you've handled this thread is crazed...

[Glenn Spencer]

JES,

Either defend his little girl iron off the tee move or leave your comments about me to yourself. You are still neglecting to acknowledge that the hole has been blueprinted. Deviating from that in the final round while tied for the lead is either stupid or means that he was afraid to hit a 3-wood. Either is suprising for one of the best in the world.

Where does it stop? What can I question a 2-time US Open champion on? Sergio has won a lot more than both of us, is it okay if I question his spitting into the hole at Doral?

[JESII]

At some point this evening I'd like you to sit down and read your posts throughout this thread. If you can do that and honestly think you deserve to have someone discuss this with you, I will. In the meantime give it a rest.

[Scott Coan]

Glenn,

A 2 time US Open champion is playing in the toughest Masters to be held in 50+ years.  Par is a good score.  Birdie is a great score.  This 2 time US Open champion is the ONLY player in the entire field that is under par for the weekend.  IT IS A BLOODBATH.  This is not Nicklaus in 86 shooting 30 on the back nine to win.  PAR IS A GOOD SCORE.  Goose has just made his first (and only) bogie of the day by three-putting 12 after hitting what he described as a perfect approach shot.

For whatever reason he chooses to hit a hybrid on 13 tee.  This strategy resulted in him having a 15 foot birdie putt that he barely missed on the high side.  This is a putt he has made hundreds of times in practice rounds I am sure.

Sometimes good putts don't go in.  

On the very next hole he had a great chance at birdie.  Made a good put that just did not go in.

Goosen's putter let him down - not his decision on 13 tee.

He put himself in position to win the tournament by making emminently makeable putts.  They simply did not go in.  

[Glenn Spencer]

JES,

I have read my posts and I am fine with them. I didn't insult anyone besides Goosen. I took many unsolicited shots and answered every question. Be careful if you have to use the bathroom or something, I imagine it would be quite a fall from that horse.

Scott,

I agree he played great. I just thought he should have hit a longer club. I just found out that a friend has passed away this afternoon and this seems a bit trivial to discuss at this moment. I still stand by the fact that nobody else has ever done it in a major. What you guys don't think is strange about that, I don't know. Thanks for argument though, enjoyed it.

[Glenn Spencer]

Well, taking a break from this thread did not help. I can't get it through my thick skull as to how this is not a colossal mistake by Goosen. The media still asks Mickelson about Winged Foot a year later. I don't see how this is not just as bad.

JES,

Apparently, I have no right to question Goosen. Who is allowed to question who? I really don't understand your statement, can you explain that to me. Start with Garcia and then explain to me, how Daniel Snyder can fire Steve Spurrier? Snyder never coached football or won an NCAA championship. Where does he get off firing someone like Spurrier? How about Schottenheimer going on 4th and 10 from the New England 31-yard line with a near Pro Bowl kicker on his team on the first series of a playoff game at home. Can I question that? I have never won a game as an NFL coach.

Does anyone have any knowledge of someone hitting a hybrid or an iron off a par 5 that is reachable for everyone on the back nine on Sunday of a major while tied for the lead? Any major, any player will suffice.  

I get that people like Goosen, I used to as well. Nobody thinks that this is a wuss move or some of the worst thinking ever displayed in the final round of a major? Normally, if not swinging well according to him, it would not make sense to take less club and have to hit it perfectly toward the hazard. Why does it in this case? The right side is completely open, isn't it?

Does anyone think that Goosen is not thinking about this exact decision, right now?

[Brent Hutto]

Glenn,

You of course have every right to criticize Goosen. I just don't think you're ever going to see your point of view vindicated. It wasn't a mistake of hubris plus bad execution like Phil at Winged Foot. And it doesn't seem to be getting any traction as a latter-day Chip Beck (or whoever it was that laid up at the Masters years ago). So I think you're a voice crying in the wilderness on this one.

Personally, I think it was a mistake on the order of not taking enough club to a front pin on an elevated green and ending up back in the fairway. By that I mean I think the chances of that hybrid working out to his advantage were slim but he was the one making that decision and trying to take into account the conditions, the situation and so forth. It was far from the sort of boneheaded, chickenshit play that you seem to view it as. All IMO of course.

I also defer to the fact that he started out in dead last place among those making the cut and shot two great rounds to be just a couple of putts (or a Zach Johnson brain cramp) away from winning the darned thing. Don't you think that is evidence that he had a pretty good game plan overall?

[Glenn Spencer]

Brent,

Thanks for the response. I seem to be the lone wolf, that is for sure. I blows my mind, but it seems to be the case.

I agree with what you said about the club and the elevated green to a front pin. Maybe it wasn't chickenshit as I have claimed, but it still has to rank as boneheaded. No?

I certainly appreciate that Goosen made a tremendous move on the weekend and got himself back in the tournament. I felt it came from great play though. He hit 3-wood on Saturday and hit it again on 14 on Sunday. It is not as if he had some gameplan like Johnson and stuck to it come hell or high water. He varied from his gameplan and paid for it with a par that looked like a bogey compared to the people he was competing for the title against.

I really want to own up and say that I am wrong about it being chicken, but everytime I want to, I just can't. I have heard what he said and it just doesn't add up to me that he was trying to make 3 or guarantee 4 with that club in his hand. There have been some dumb things done in majors, but I just don't ever remember ANYONE taking a score out of their hands on a par 5 on the tee shot.

Doesn't one have to at least think that this is part of the reason that Goosen never beats Woods? You like the guy. Would you like to see Goosen put a little more pressure on himself off the tee in Majors? Let's face it, if not for his putter, Mickelson buries him at Shinnecock. Southern Hills was a lot of the putter as well. Especially in the playoff.

BTW, playing Granville in 2 weeks. Very fire up for that one.