[Mike Hendren]

It would help me greatly in my reflection on the relative merits of the two courses if you would please rate these two holes on a scale of 1(bad) to 10(great):

The 161 yards 6th at Bandon Dunes:


The 148 yards 11th at Pacific Dunes:


Thanks,

Mike

[Tom Huckaby]

I think they're both pretty damn good holes, room-mate.

PD11 just has a bit more of a butt-tightening factor, as their really is nowhere to miss.  BD6 has a pretty large fudge factor short and right.

So... with both holes hard against the ocean... both very beautiful... both requiring precise judgement of the wind and a well-struck iron....

Call PD11 an 8, BD6 a 7.

And that's on my own personal scale of par threes, which would have CPC16 and precious few others as 10s.

TH

[Geoffrey Childs]

I think they're both pretty damn good holes, room-mate.

PD11 just has a bit more of a butt-tightening factor, as their really is nowhere to miss.  BD6 has a pretty large fudge factor short and right.

So... with both holes hard against the ocean... both very beautiful... both requiring precise judgement of the wind and a well-struck iron....

Call PD11 an 8, BD6 a 7.

And that's on my own personal scale of par threes, which would have CPC16 and precious few others as 10s.

TH

Mr Huckaby

Remember those who saw you play Shinnecock Hills #11 and CP #16- I believe the list of people who have done that is 1   Is SH #11 on your precious short list of 10's?

I like both those par 3's at Bandon Resort. They play slightly differently due to green surrounds with #6 BD if I recall properly more ability to recover with varied short game options.

[Tom Huckaby]

 

Yes, I would put Shinnecock 11 on my short list of 10s without a doubt... and I'd hope I'd say that even despite my ineptitude displayed there.  If I was to base golf hole greatness on that, it would be a quite long list.

TH

[Sean Leary]

Huck,

I think that 6 at Bandon is more difficult due to the length myself.  Also, 6 has changed from when it was built in that there used to be no bail out area right as there is now.  Even with the bail out It think it is more difficult.

[Jason Blasberg]

11 at PD is a 9.

6 at BD is a 7.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I think that 6 at Bandon is more difficult due to the length myself.  Also, 6 has changed from when it was built in that there used to be no bail out area right as there is now.  Even with the bail out It think it is more difficult.

Sean.... hmmmm... it is at least one more club.  But I don't see that changing things enough to off-set the lack of miss area existing on 11 PD.

Let's just put it this way:  playing each, I've never felt fear on 6 BD.  I have felt it on 11 PD.

And to me feeling fear on a par three is a good thing... so long as it's not overkill/stupid.

TH

[Sean Leary]

TH,

I'd have to go to the card but I think it is significantly more than that from the back tees on both..I'm thinking 170 on 6 at BD.

[Bill_McBride]

#11 Pacaific Dunes is one of my favs anywhere - a 9.

#6 Bandon - good hole - a 6.

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike has them at 161 and 148 - those are the yardages I used for this comparison.

I've rarely played the back tees at either course.

TH

[Brad Tufts]

BD6....6

It's one of the "middle in interest" holes on BD.

PD11...7.5

One of the higher-interest holes on PD.

[Andy Ryall]

I found 11 far more intimidating despite a shorter shot - while both offer little in terms of options left or right - the visual of those front bunkers on 11 make the hole much more precarious.  I like both holes but I think I took more photos of the stunning 11th than any of the 36 holes at BD (2002).

[John Goodman]

The playing characteristics/ shot demands are pretty similar.  I do think that Kidd's hole is the more strategic, and Doak's more heroic or - ulp - penal.  But I like the look of PD11 better.  Both very fine holes - I'll second your scores, Huck.

[Kalen Braley]

I would have to give the nod to 11 at PD as well. They are both situated in a great spot relative to the coast, but 11 has the extra rugged look and is pretty tough for just a short hole.  The bunkering is also beautiful IMO as well.

[Jim Franklin]

PD #11 = 8.5
BD #6  = 7

[John Kavanaugh]

I absolutely could not remember the 6th hole at Bandon from this pic.  Sadly for whatever reason we had to start on 10 so I am still a bit confused by the numbers but, and I am sorry to admit this, I went to my photo collection and noticed that I had played from a tee hugging the ocean instead of the ones shown in the pic.  I honestly don't get the genius of either hole and think they are perfectly equal as I was able to recover at Pacific even though my alternate shot partner (A.J. Wayright) hit his typical shot.  I don't remember either green either.  I think it is a tie and give each design a 3 with bonus points for the fact that neither architect forgot about the ocean of 7 which averages out for a 5 each.

[Mike Benham]

I absolutely could not remember the 6th hole at Bandon from this pic.  

Ditto for me, man it sucks getting old ... eyes going bad, memory fading, hair turning grey ...

[rjsimper]

Bandon 6 has a bit of the Amen Corner mystery to it...at least on two consecutive plays this past year.  

Standing on the tee, having played 4 directly into the wind and 5 with a following wind from the left, logically 6 would be playing with a helping wind from the left.  

Having pulled my club, 2 straight days I found myself horrified to see the flag blowing straight across with wind from the right.  

Fearing a momentary swirl, I waited and watched intently - the direction never waivered.  I hit my ball toward the right edge of the green, flag still blowing left, and the wind pushes the ball to the right and down the bank.

Some funny business going on there if you ask me....

[Todd Rohrer]

I've always thought they were both fun holes, with a lot of elements to consider from the tee.
Pac 11 would get my nod at least from a routing standpoint, though, because you can see it from #10 tee, and it doesn't look any less intimidating from there than it does from its own tee.  Starts getting in my head sooner than I ought to let it!  Often costs me a shot on 10 since I can't think of two things at the same time...

[Sean Leary]

Bandon 6 has a bit of the Amen Corner mystery to it...at least on two consecutive plays this past year.  

Standing on the tee, having played 4 directly into the wind and 5 with a following wind from the left, logically 6 would be playing with a helping wind from the left.  

Having pulled my club, 2 straight days I found myself horrified to see the flag blowing straight across with wind from the right.  

Fearing a momentary swirl, I waited and watched intently - the direction never waivered.  I hit my ball toward the right edge of the green, flag still blowing left, and the wind pushes the ball to the right and down the bank.

Some funny business going on there if you ask me....

You hitting a tee ball that mysteriously goes right?  Shocking!!!!

[Tim Bert]

I really enjoy the 11th at PD.  Our first trip out there, I played the hole with a 9 iron (one club wind) in the morning and a 6-iron (close to four-club wind) in the afternoon, and the hole had a lot more teeth when I was trying to play a mid-iron.  I also give some taboo aesthetic brownie points to #11, though it is surprisingly not due to the ocean.  I think that the ocean setting actually adds more to the aesthetics of #6, but I love the bunkering and the wild grass surrounding #11.  I've played out of both the front bunker and the left bunker, from the right side of the green and on the green, so I've seen it from a good number of angles.  I agree that #11 has more of a fear-factor than #6.  I never seem to hit the green at #6, but it seems like I always end up with a similar chip from short-right or right.  

Anyone else played a shot to BD6 from PD 10?  I like that hole better than the traditional BD6 tee shot.  Much different green from that angle.

I'll give PD11 a 9 and BD6 a 6.

For the record, I just checked my scoring average (I was about a 15 handicap for both trips) on each hole - after I provided commentary and ratings.  PD11 plays 3.83 for me.  Never made anything other than 3 or 4 in 6 rounds.  BD6 plays 3.75 for me.  Never made anything other than 3 or 4 there either.  If I were a betting man, I'd say either a 2 or 5 is in order on my trip this June.  

[Tim Bert]

Here's my hybrid hole (with a tough pin) for those interested...

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