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Jay Flemma

What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« on: March 07, 2007, 12:00:12 PM »
...its outside rochester.  The price is unbeatable.

Its certainly not "Scottish" but what do you all think of the design?  The architect is Craig Schreiner, who did Grande Dunes.

The course:

http://www.234golf.com/greystone.asp

Craig's website:

http://www.csgolf.com/
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 12:00:30 PM by Jay Flemma »

Jay Flemma

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2007, 06:19:57 PM »
Did I just "stump the schwab?"  Is there no one on this list familiar with it?  Hey!  Mark Chalfant!  You're mister "obscure upstate NY courses guy."  Nothing?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Mike_Cirba

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 06:35:20 PM »
John Foley should stop by.   I know he's played it.

I'm going to play there this spring, as well, if it ever quits freakin snowing.

Jay Flemma

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 07:28:53 PM »
The "I-90 effect" - snow till mid-april hits that area hard.  I remember when I lived in syracuse it snowed on my mom's birthday...May 5th!

Have you tried Conklin, Mike?

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 09:41:13 PM »
What do I think of Greystone, hmmm...

Best public access course in Western NY...

Great greens w/ bold slopes, shelves, fall away rear sections...

Great routing on challanging site. Prevailing wind is always a thought ...

Terrific mix of short & long holes. Par 5's are very good, the long 4's are some of the best

Yes Mr. Cirba you need to see it. Once the snow clears in mid-june. I've got two feet on my lawn and Thursday will be the coldest night of the winter at -2!!!!

I'll try and upload a few pics that I've got along w/ a routing of the place.

Integrity in the moment of choice

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 09:55:23 PM »
I'VE PLAYED IT!!

I've played the course twice, and I happen to like it, although I don't think it is as good as Ravenwood or Mill Creek, the two other top public courses in Rochester.  Like Mike Cirba said this is John Foley's home course, but I can give some good thoughts on it:

It has some wild greens like Schreiner's other upstate design with Mike Hurdzan--Cobblestone Creek.  Holes 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, 17, and 18 are all wild.  A couple favorites here are:

2) a straightforward par four with little trouble to speak of with the exception of a huge two-tiered green, with the difference in levels being at least 6 feet.  Fantastic definitive hole for the rest of the course.

4) Difficult long four with a neat over the rise tee shot that should favor the left side, then an excellent downhill approach to a double-plateau green.

5) Downhill par four into an open meadow laden with stone walls and fescue.  The property has many different feels, and this hole provides a good transition between the woods and the heath.

6) Exposed par three next to a lake.  Changing wind directions and a wild green make this more than an ordinary water par three.  It's one of those holes you don't expect to like, but it turns out to be very cool.

10) Short par four with a cool long green allowing for multiple strategies off the tee.

13) Seemingly plain par three at 180 yards, but it plays dead into the wind with a deep bunker left and fescue on the right.  This one has another wild two-tiered green that is hard to read.  This is my favorite hole on the course, seeing as how Schreiner was able to move minimal earth on a flat part of the property and still create a cool hole.

16) Long par five (as are all the par fives at Greystone), but this one stands out with a distinctive second shot around a marsh, bunkers and another stone wall.  Three shots must be well-executed to make par here.

Eighteen is one hole that the course touts as a standout, but for me it is really a bad hole saved by a cool green.  The tee shot is straight downhill with no hazards, but the fairway ends 120 yards short of the green, only 300 yards from the back tees, requiring a long carry over a lake for the approach.  The hole is unplayable for most golfers, so the drop area is on the other side of the water.  The green is massive, shared with the ninth, and full of contour.

Dramatic green contours are a theme for Schreiner, especially here.  For the price it's an excellent choice, but I prefer Ravenwood in nearby Victor for a public course.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 09:57:59 PM »
John Foley, I know you've played Ravenwood, but have you gotten over to play Mill Creek yet??  I find this course to be better than Greystone in terms of strategy, green contour (the greens at MC are fantastic) and conditioning.  The problem I've had with Greystone both times is that the course is saturated, allowing for minimal run-up options on a links course.  Mill Creek is much more firm and therefore much more fun to play.  Maybe I just caught Greystone at a bad time, but this is a major downer for me.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Jay Flemma

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 10:28:45 PM »
Hey John, Hey JNC.

Great stuff guys.  I like it alot too, but I also think some of the holes are a little tight and there's a little too much water (6 and 9 and 16).  You're right, there is a great collection of greens.

Do you see a similarity at 18 at GS to 18 at royal new kent?  both of them finish their "links inspired" course with a 150 yd carry over water...

have you a favorite hole?  5 and 7 come to mind for me, but I like 18 too.  Plus the clubhouse restaurant was solid.  A great price and a nice day.

Maybe we outta have a day there...

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 10:48:38 PM »
JNC - I do play alot at Greystone and I love the course. I think it's got the best greeens of anywhere in Rochester. Love the routings. Yes - I do think the drainage is tough and can play soft, but I've seen it F&F also.

I'm with you on 18. I don't know how they could have routed the course and kept everything else and had a different 18th.

I got to Mill Creek last fall and enjoyed it however it had some holes I really didn't like. 9, 18 but had some really strong ones par 3 5  or 6. I do need to get back and do some more field work there.

I live around the corner from Ravenwood and the only downside is the lack of movement in the greens.

I'll tell you you take those three add Bristol Harbour and you've got as good an affordable 4-some of public access as anywhere!!



Jay - Favorite hole? Probably #7. We better have a day there!!!



Here are some images

Approach to the Par 4 4th. It's slightly uphill from the tee to this point. Green is tough w/ a narrow front section.



W/ a perfect 3w or long iron to here this would be your approach to #11. Great hole which is really a score wreaker!!



Tee shot on the long par 5 12th. Fit the fairway and you can get home or close to it. Miss and you'll have a tough time laying up to get on in regulation.



Green on the 12th. How great is that little knob in he front!!!



Par 3 13th. Uphill into the prevailing wind. Green is the highest point on the back. Great movement, huge bunker on left, swale on the right (w/ a catch-basin I think - but don't let Tommy know!!!)



14th green with again some great green movement.




The approach from right of the layup area on par 5 16th.



From the tee on the short par 3 17th. Easy tee shot/ tough green.




View from the far right side of #18 green looking all the way across the double green w/ 9. You don't see many double green's, most people wouldn't like them, but I think it's awesome.




Here is the routing. Lower left corner is the highest point on the front. The uphill #7 is one of my all time favorite second shots. 90% blind & severly uphill to a tough green


Integrity in the moment of choice

Jay Flemma

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 10:53:36 PM »
Nice work on the pix!!!

maybe we oughtta make a weekend out of it and play Greystone one day, Hiawatha landing the next and wrap it up with conklin players' club!

Dave Bourgeois

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2007, 08:01:26 PM »
I absolutely love it when a place like this gets a mention on GCA.  We often talk about hoe many newer public courses have bland greens, and then one of these come up.
Thanks for the pics.

I for one have been dying to get to Hiawatha and would love a West NY under the Radar tour.

Cheers,

D

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2007, 08:19:59 PM »
Thanks Jay and John (pics)!

It looks like a play that I'd enjoy.

I agree with the comments on 18. Also, 11 looks to be a style I would not like - no bail out on one side or the other.
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Jay Flemma

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2007, 08:31:37 PM »
I love it!  The "under the radar" tour!

Brilliant.

Look really, why don't we organize a weekend in the summer to play conklin, greystone and Hiawatha?

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 08:52:14 PM »
Dave B where are you located? Hiawatha is a great great course and a fantastic value.

Jeff - The one reason I like 11 is that it demands two excellent shots. You can play agressive and try and get a mid-iron into the green or lay back and hit 3I then 4I.

I'm in for an under the radr tour, however Greystone to Hiawathat is about 2 1/2 hours!!

Maybe we can do a Hiawatha & Conklin in the Binghamton area & then a Rochester tour including Greystone, Ravenwood, Mill Creek & Arrowhead (by our won Scott Witter). I'm up for organizing. Who is in?
Integrity in the moment of choice

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 09:05:32 PM »
Better include Mill Creek on that trip!!

I neglected to mention 14, but that it is a very fun hole.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Jay Flemma

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2007, 10:13:51 PM »
Dave B where are you located? Hiawatha is a great great course and a fantastic value.

Jeff - The one reason I like 11 is that it demands two excellent shots. You can play agressive and try and get a mid-iron into the green or lay back and hit 3I then 4I.

I'm in for an under the radr tour, however Greystone to Hiawathat is about 2 1/2 hours!!

Maybe we can do a Hiawatha & Conklin in the Binghamton area & then a Rochester tour including Greystone, Ravenwood, Mill Creek & Arrowhead (by our won Scott Witter). I'm up for organizing. Who is in?

If you organize it, I'm in and I'm friends with HL pro Bernie Hercid and can hook you up with him for sweetheart rates on two days of golf AND a nights stay in a nice Binghamton hotel.  Dinner at the old firehouse for thick juicy steaks!!!!

Guys, DO NOT MISS HIAWATHA.  Do NOT!

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2007, 09:55:14 AM »
If you're doing an 'under the radar' tour of that part of NY,
don't forget the Ross muni Mark Twain in Elmira.  I've always
wondered if it's possible to keep a putt on the 11th green
w/modern green speeds.  Oh, and $21 to walk.

http://www.cityofelmira.net/golf/index.html

Ray Tennenbaum

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2007, 06:45:39 PM »
what, no Canasawacta fans?

Dave Bourgeois

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2007, 08:36:37 AM »
John,

By summer I will moving to the Danbury, CT area, but I would travel out to Binghamton for Speedies alone.  

Doing Conklin and Hiawatha and then heading out towards Rochecster sounds like a good trip.  My parents organized a similar trip for Conklin Players and a couple others with a bunch of folks from their club (Pinehaven in Guilderland) a couple of years ago. I remember them telling me it was an incredible value and the golf was surprising.  

Now that's what I like to find, value with good golf.  Its like getting an incredible wine for under 20 bucks a bottle.  You almost feel like you are doing something illegal.

I am in... We should get a preliminary countwith preferred month and start narrowing things down.  I am up for early June.

Mike_Cirba

Re:What do people think of GREYSTONE in walworth, NY
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2007, 10:20:21 AM »
John,

I'm in, although I'm likely going to be up there earlier than June, as well.

I'll keep you updated.