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PThomas

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seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« on: February 01, 2007, 09:11:47 AM »
this course near Destin, FL, can be played as a 6-holer, 9-hole exec. course, or as a 10-hole par3 course

only 40 acres in size, 25 are turfed, plays from 1600-1800 yds.
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

John Keenan

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 09:40:11 AM »
Paul

this post may fit quite well in the Golfweek Snubs 9 Hole courses posting. take a read

John
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Bill_McBride

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 10:26:57 AM »
Interesting.  I live an hour or so west of Destin and have never heard of the Origins course.  Any more info?

Sounds as though it could be confusing to play if the group ahead was playing the 10-hole par 3 course and you wanted to play the 6-hole course.  ???
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 10:27:46 AM by Bill_McBride »

PThomas

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 10:44:31 AM »
Ace:  that's about it...I got the info from the lastest issue of Golfweek
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike Hendren

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 10:49:43 AM »
Bill,

It's in the Watercolor development near Seaside.  I intend to check it out next month on spring break and file a report.  I know you're busy that week but let me know if you'd like to drive over to join me.  If not, I'll see you March 22nd.

Mike
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 10:53:22 AM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 10:52:21 AM »
Bill,

It's in the Watercolor development near Seaside.  I intend to check it out next month on spring break and file a report.  I know you're busy that week but let me know if you'd like to drive over to join me.

Mike

"Hillbilly gone Wild" at Spring Break.  Video should be available in May..

Derek_Duncan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 11:09:09 AM »
This is a really neat little course. It's located in the WaterSound development about 8 miles down the road from WaterColor and basically across Highway 98 from Camp Creek.

The property is, as expected, dead flat, ringed with pine (at least until the build-out catches up) and there's some nice bunkering--deep with steep grassed faces--and alluring green contour, especially in the "regulation" greens.

The par-3 course is a blend of the regulation greens and additional, typically smaller greens set off to the sides of the fairways and plenty of tee options. The routing runs basically in a clockwise loop, working around a native areas and pond at the far end, and there's a wonderful wide open space where #1 goes out and #6/#13 comes home. There's also enough elasticity built into the design that in several places you could stick your tee in the ground and hit into any of several greens. From what I saw the course might even be playable in reverse.

I believe the course will determine day-to-day or morning to afternoon what configuration it will play, but the idea as explained to me was that it be a very open, utilitarian space to be shared with as many different residents enjoying as many different activities as possible. A town center, when completed, will be just steps away from the first tee.
www.feedtheball.com -- a podcast about golf architecture and design
@feedtheball

J_McKenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 11:21:22 AM »
The Origins course was designed and built as part of a new residential community being developed by St. Joe Towns and Resorts called WaterSound North.  The original concept was to provide an "outside the box" option for people to play the game without the restrictions, the limitations, and in some ways the intimidation of playing a regulation 18-hole course.  It can be set up to play in different ways, a six-hole regulation length course, a ten-hole par three course, and now an executive nine-hole course.

It was built to be a part of the community, like a park, that can be utilized by the residents as a place for kids, families, and newcomers to enjoy the game.  And because it has well designed regulation length holes, it's also a place where more accomplished players will enjoy playing when they don't have time for a full round of golf and would rather not just beat balls on the practice tee.  It is a very unique concept developed primarily by Paul Cowley, with its genesis coming, I believe, from the kids course located between the Marine Hotel and the 18-hole course at North Berwick (hence the name "Origins", as it is has ties to an early Scottish links course).  We did a similar course for the Sea Island Company which is located at their Cabin Bluff facility, although the Origins has evolved with more playing options.

My understanding is that the Origins course is now open for public play and is set up to be played primarily as a 9-hole executive course.  For something different and something fun, you may want to give it a try while you can as I would think outside play would become limited as the surrounding community continues to grow.  Paul may be able to add more from a design perspective.

John

 

Peter Pallotta

Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 11:32:27 AM »
A few months ago I read about this, and my first thought was to email Paul Cowley and congratulate him.

I'm sure that if you wanted to, you could look at this/this idea through any number of different lenses, and with a lot of nuance.

But - keeping it simple - it seems to me that it's undoubtedly a very good idea, and a very good thing. I hope it does very well, and that the idea can get refined and duplicated, often and everywhere.

Peter

paul cowley

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 11:52:55 AM »
Johns information is most accurate except when crediting me with much of the inspiration......I have a hard time accepting that, as most of my inspiration for the various design concepts came from Merion #10. ;D.

One other element not mentioned about the course is that we grassed it entirely with 'Seashore Supreme' Paspalum....a first for us. This grass variety can be cut at different heights through out the course, even the greens. Changing green size or collars and close mown areas should be easy to effect and we plan on using the same grass on our new links course in the sand dunes of Cabo San Lucas.....once our 50 acre nursery starts to produce.

Its exciting stuff.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 12:02:52 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

paul cowley

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 12:01:41 PM »
....and welcome back Peter! [even if you're just a newbie :)].
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 12:21:41 PM »
Paul - can you give me any numbers as to the cost of what they are doing ?  It might help with the Dodgertown project.

Greg Tallman

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 01:19:50 PM »
Paul,

How goes it with the course down here. Saw Bob a few days ago and need to get out to the project for a looksee.

When did you start the nursery? Looks like we'll be cleaning shoes of all guests soon... that is before they play.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2007, 01:50:12 PM »
Greg...all is going well...nursery cleared, awaiting irrigation, desal plant up and running, moving dirt etc. I will be there next Mon thru Thurs if you want to come on by....and I wouldn't worry about cleaning your shoes, if anything you might want to take back a trunk full and spread it around.
Bermuda will only be in the history books 10 years from now, so you might as well convert while we can give you the chance ;D.
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Greg Tallman

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2007, 02:28:21 PM »
Paul,

If I see Bob this weekend (pretty good bet he'll be at Nik San) I'll see if we can drop by Monday or Tuesday.

I think someone had apready dropped off your trunk full as we have reomoved considerable amounts of paspalum over the past few years. Not an easy task.

Just wanna see the 312 yard 4-iron if we come over!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2007, 02:46:21 PM »
Bill,

It's in the Watercolor development near Seaside.  I intend to check it out next month on spring break and file a report.  I know you're busy that week but let me know if you'd like to drive over to join me.  If not, I'll see you March 22nd.

Mike

Bogey, the 22nd is literally my only opening, in between a week in Austin at Barton Creek and a week in Scotland.

I hate it when that happens!  ;D

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2007, 04:23:04 PM »
One other element not mentioned about the course is that we grassed it entirely with 'Seashore Supreme' Paspalum....
Its exciting stuff.


O great wielder of the claidheamh mòr,
two Q's for your kind consideration:

1. Please explain the origin of 'Origin'. Some thoughts towards old design styles, theorem, homage?

2. Any pics of the Paspalum? Any ideas of blade width, cutting heights, sward density, Stimp(gasp!) speeds. etc, please?

bestestest,
FBD.

Oh and PS for the Agronomists: Is Paspalum rhizomatous or stoloniferous?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 04:45:52 PM by Martin Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2007, 09:10:18 PM »
Martin sama,

'Origin' was as you would expect....a homage reference to the original game and its less complicated approach, which is something that hasn't been lost as much to you folks on the opposite side of the Hazard.

No pics but I can tell you that the color is generally better than Bermuda and the blade texture is finer and more upright than most Bermudas....it is similar to the playing conditions of Zoysia from the fairway, and closer to the northern grass varieties on the greens. With proper maintenance the green speeds can achieve double digit Stimps.....although that is not a requirement in my mind.
It's a tough, aggressive turf that, like a good woman, needs to be well handled and not neglected for optimum benefit :).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 10:48:16 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2007, 09:23:51 PM »
This is a really neat little course. It's located in the WaterSound development about 8 miles down the road from WaterColor and basically across Highway 98 from Camp Creek.

The property is, as expected, dead flat, ringed with pine (at least until the build-out catches up) and there's some nice bunkering--deep with steep grassed faces--and alluring green contour, especially in the "regulation" greens.

The par-3 course is a blend of the regulation greens and additional, typically smaller greens set off to the sides of the fairways and plenty of tee options. The routing runs basically in a clockwise loop, working around a native areas and pond at the far end, and there's a wonderful wide open space where #1 goes out and #6/#13 comes home. There's also enough elasticity built into the design that in several places you could stick your tee in the ground and hit into any of several greens. From what I saw the course might even be playable in reverse.

I believe the course will determine day-to-day or morning to afternoon what configuration it will play, but the idea as explained to me was that it be a very open, utilitarian space to be shared with as many different residents enjoying as many different activities as possible. A town center, when completed, will be just steps away from the first tee.

Derek....just having re read your post I want to thank you for your description of the course and your fine observation skills as well....its a course that not everyone understands the first time around.
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mike Hendren

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Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2007, 10:25:07 AM »
I'll be spring breaking next week at Seaside and will check this course out.  Anybody been there?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

peter_p

Re:seems like a good idea: DLIII's Origins Course
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2007, 11:45:52 AM »
And to think I posted about this last night on the six hole thread.

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