How close architecturally is Primm Valley to Shadow Creek..

[John Kavanaugh]

When driving from Vegas to LA I came upon what looked like a golf course built on nothing out in no where.  It wasn't Shadow Creek...How close is Primm Valley to the real thing.

Are there any better play and stay values.

[rjsimper]

Never played nor set foot on Shadow Creek.

I can say that Primm Valley's Desert course does not give you, by any means, an "isolated from your surroundings" feeling that I'm told Shadow Creeek aims to create.   The Desert course does its best to lay low on the desert floor and does not attempt to defy its surroundings with mature trees, etc.  

The Lakes course is closer capturing part of the Shadow Creek unofficial mission statement...the exterior holes are similar to the Desert course, but a few of the interior holes (the 8th immediately comes to mind) look like they're going for the "wait what state am I in again?" feeling.

The Primm courses have always been one of the best values in Vegas, and while you couldn't pay me enough to stay in Primm, for those looking for simple lodging and amenities I would think it is the best Stay and Play value in the greater LV area among courses/resorts that are truly affiliated (I don't count Sahara/your choice of Royal Links/Desert Pines/Badlands/$50 surcharge for Bali Hai for $150/pp/night as a true "Stay and Play".

[Eamon Lynch]

I played Primm's Lakes course and Shadow Creek a year ago. Primm is a reasonably enjoyable diversion from the slots -- about an hour from the Strip, just across the Calif. border -- but nowhere near being in the same league as Shadow Creek.
 All they share in common is an owner, as both are MGM Grand properties.
 

[John Kavanaugh]

The group I would be with can not spend more than $100 for a round of golf and will stay anywere to get a deal...short of the Blue Moon.  What is the name of that going to die in a cart course that Matt Wards likes so much.

Eamon..thanks for the MGM connection.  They might give us a deal if we stay there and they own the property.  When I was in the Rio looking for Prince tickets I saw they had a golf desk.  Any ideas on what they may offer.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have already told my friends that Rustic Canyon with the Bicycle and Commerce poker clubs is the best golf/gambling destination I have found...but they want to see the strip.

[rjsimper]

The group I would be with can not spend more than $100 for a round of golf and will stay anywere to get a deal...short of the Blue Moon.  What is the name of that going to die in a cart course that Matt Wards likes so much.

Wolf Creek in Mesquite would be my guess.

What time of year will this trip be?

[Eamon Lynch]

I know Primm offers discounted rates to guests (about $450-$50 off fees, which are usually about $175 to play there this time of year. Not sure if that discount extends only to guests of the properties right around there (Primm Resort and a couple of neaby places) or to guests of MGM properties on the Strip too (which includes about a dozen big name hotels). They also have some referral deal with Walters golf courses in town too. Try www.primmvalleyresorts.com to see what they have online.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm thinking winter as they are trying to pick up some odd jobs to finance this thing.  Odd jobs are usually summer jobs around here.  We need to fly out stay and play all for closer to $400 than $500 bucks.  note:  These are not rater buds.

Given that I have a car sitting in LA now we might get the best deal by flying into LAX and making a day/night trip to Vegas and back with golf at Rustic and cards at the Bicycle.  With four guys we could sleep in shifts in the car.

[rjsimper]

In winter you will not find any palatable value in Las Vegas golf.

Of course, if the Bicycle club remains as kind as it has been, Shadow Creek might end up being a value proposition for you.

[Jerry Kluger]

JK: Las Vegas golf can be expensive at certain times of the year.  I have played the Primm courses and they are enjoyable but not anywhere near the experience that Shadow Creek is.  Shadow Creek is an experience because of what they've created more than the enjoyment of the strategies involved in playing the holes; at $500 a pop it is hard to justify. Primm courses are usually a good value because they are around an hour from the strip. Paiute courses are 3 Pete Dye tracks that are enjoyable and can be well priced and generally the Wolf course is viewed as the best of the 3.

[Jerry Kluger]

I forgot to mention that if you are going to stay on the strip, I've found that the Monte Carlo often has some very good deals.

[John Kavanaugh]

I really have no interest in paying to play Shadow Creek.  I don't think that was ever the intent of the experience.

[Mike Hendren]

When I was in the Rio looking for Prince tickets ...  

With apologies to Ernest Thayer:

Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright.
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light.
And, somewhere men are laughing, and little children shout,
but there is no joy on the Hillbilly Tour
Our founder is found out.


 

[Billsteele]

JK-The golf desk at Rio will probably direct you to Rio Secco...the Rees Jones course owned by the hotel. I am sure they have arrangements with other Vegas area courses.

[Jim Franklin]

JB -

I stayed at Whiskey Pete's one night when I got married in Vegas. The room was maybe $10-$15, but the golf at Primm was $200. The rooms are okay and you really can't beat the price. Wolf Creek is the opposite direction. Primm (Lakes) is similar to SC in that it is manicured, waterfalls, lots of eye candy. When I last played it in 1998, I liked it a lot. We played Shadow the next day before the wedding. I think you will spend less on the room at Whiskey Pete's so your friends can splurge on the golf.

[Scott Whitley]

I also stayed at Primm "Resort" a couple of nights a few years back, in order to play the two Primm courses and not have to commute from Vegas.  It was alright!  I mean, it was 29 bucks or something (plus discount on the golf), and the casino was half empty, meaning the croupiers were actually friendly and valued one's business.  Nothing special (the rooms, ambience and so on) but perfectly acceptable.

[David Stamm]

John , I agree with Ryan. This time of year you aren't going to get "deals" in LV. I liked the Wolf course at Paiute. Very challenging and has some interest. If you don't want to drive that far out, Badlands is not that bad, although definitely  not worth the price it charges for this time of year. When I played it, there were not any homes or buildings around it, but not anymore. While I haven't played it, I hear Bobby Weed did a decent job at TPC Canyons, but don't hold me to that.

BTW, across the street from Badlands is Angel Park. It has a couple of pedestrian courses by Palmer, but Bob Cupp did a neat par 3 course in there called Cloud 9 that has some replicas of famous par 3's from around the world. It's actually a 12 hole course with 9 of them being lit at night. I've played there a few times when there on business and gone over after having dinner. It's fun and keeps me out of trouble.

[Jon Spaulding]

Having played each of them only once so will not comment specifically for fear of getting blasted. Design wise similar; TF just takes everything at Shadow to the "next" level. Experience-wise no comparison, but I would choose Primm desert in a bad economy , Shadow in a good one .

The lakes has a a turfed-in, resort feel, while the desert course has mostly non-parallel holes with some scrub and less water features, but still quite a bit of turf. Shadow has a lot of turf with holes divided by trees & pine straw, with some elaborate man-made hazards and some memorable risk/reward options. I'm playing there next week and will post up some photos with descriptions to the best of my abilities.

Someone please clarify the rumor that Primm was built on the CA side due to a standing agreement that TF had with Steve Wynn not to design any other courses in the state of NV, after Shadow was built.

Attached are a couple of photos from the last trip to Shadow, for those interested.

[David Stamm]

Keep 'em comin' bubba! And don't pull any punches just because you only played a course once. You won't get any blasts from me because of that.

[Michael Dugger]

I thought they did not allow cameras there?  You little devil  

[Jon Spaulding]

I thought they did not allow cameras there?  You little devil  

I presume they do now, once you drop the "quan". I was walking; with the caddie driving the cart . Perhaps they were so appaled by the thought of a walker that they never noticed the camera......

As you can see, a fairly photogenic place. Dave, you can still get in...Mirage is only $99 per night early next week.....

[Jon Spaulding]

Keep 'em comin' bubba! And don't pull any punches just because you only played a course once. You won't get any blasts from me because of that.

The rustic #12 green supporters had me in tears yesterday.....so I will now start with some form of disclaimer. Either that or lie and say that my memory is infinitely better than most.....

2nd shot to #18, after a "bold" tee shot (Dave, it was the patented l/r slinger)


tee shot on 18


#17 with donald duck


approach to 14


#13


#12 (with caddie in cart and grounds crew I beat to the clubhouse)


approach to 11


#8

[David Stamm]

Those are amazing photo's! Now I know what you were talking about that day when you were telling me about this course. I wish I could make it, but I leave for TX the following week. Didn't you tell me they have a book of the course for sale?

[Jon Spaulding]

Those are amazing photo's! Now I know what you were talking about that day when you were telling me about this course. I wish I could make it, but I leave for TX the following week. Didn't you tell me they have a book of the course for sale?

Yes; they also sell it at the hotel. A strong chance it will be bought next week.

[John Kavanaugh]

If I'm going to pay $500 I don't want a bunch of maintenance guys dilly dallying in my way.  Is this typical or did you go out early.