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Tim Pitner

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Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« on: December 19, 2006, 01:21:19 PM »
A friend of mine has proposed a visit to Wild Dunes in Charleston as part of a trip to the Masters.  I don't take that many golf trips so I don't want to waste any.  What's new at Wild Dunes?  I recall reading here that some condos have negatively affected the Links course.  How is the Links course holding up?  Is the other course, Harborside, any good?  Any thoughts on alternative courses, besides Kiawah, between Charleston and Augusta (and, no, I'm not trying to get on Bulls Bay, Yeaman's or Charleston CC)?

P.S. I tried a search here on Wild Dunes but it didn't yield what I'm looking for.  

Mike Hendren

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 02:14:50 PM »
Tim,

I can't comment on the encroachment as I played the course twice in the mid-80's before the housing became ubiquitous.

That said,  I think it is a course that should be played by serious architecture students.  It jump started Tom Fazio's career in much the same way that Harbor Town did Pete Dye's.  

More importantly, it marked a return of golf course architecture in this country to the sea, with the pictures of the 18th hole alone capturing golfers' imaginations.  It is not altogether insignificant that a photo of the 18th hole graces the cover of Cornish & Whitten's The Golf Course.  

Sure, it has fallen off just about every list it ever graced and won't grab anyone's attention in the treehouse, but given its 1980 +/- opening, it perhaps played a pivotal role in the renaissance of golf course architecture in America.

Mike
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 02:15:54 PM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mike Hoak

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 02:15:28 PM »
If you go to Wild Dunes, you will likely enjoy both courses.  The Links is certainly the stronger of the two.  The final two holes at the Links get all of the publicity, but there is a bunch of other good stuff to see out there.  I particularly like number ten, which many on this board either like or despise.  The Harbor course is fun, but the course feels a little repetitive after a few holes.  I have family in the Charleston area and have played Wild Dunes many times over the years.  And yes, there are more condos than ever.  Most are not intrusive except that awful monstrosity behind 18 green.

You will hear many allude to how great the Links course used to be.  That is not to say it is not a very good course still.  However, before Hurrican Hugo and the condo development, the Links course was a beauty.  There were many more trees and the property just felt more rugged.

Ron Whitten probably put it best in a recent Golf Digest article on whether Fazio is good for the game:

"But golf can be just as much fun, and certainly far more challenging, when played in more Spartan conditions, with a pullcart on dry, patchy fairways where one might have to improvise some shots.  Tom Fazio used to design such courses, like Wild Dunes, his first 100 Greatest layout. It's a shame we don't recognize that course on the 100 Greatest anymore, and a shame that it's no longer his standard."

As for other options, the collection of courses at Kiawah is about as good as it gets.  

On my last trek down to the Masters, my dad and I spent several days in Hilton Head before heading to Augusta.  Although, if you are interested in playing Harbour Town, it shuts down to prepare for the Heritage on that Monday of the first Masters practice round.  Playing it those last days before it closes down is quite a treat though.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 02:18:52 PM by Mike Hoak »

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 02:16:09 PM »
Tim, i don't know where you are coming from and if Charleston is out of your way.  Wild Dunes would not be my first choice.  I never really liked either course.  And yes there are condos all over the place.  On 18 there is an apartment complex that could be in any suburb.  There are lots of other places I would go first.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

JMorgan

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 02:36:26 PM »
Tim, i don't know where you are coming from and if Charleston is out of your way.  Wild Dunes would not be my first choice.  I never really liked either course.  And yes there are condos all over the place.  On 18 there is an apartment complex that could be in any suburb.  There are lots of other places I would go first.

Tommy,
Such as... ?  I'm making one of my regular family pilgrimages to Charleston at the end of the week and am curious to hear what you think are the best area courses -- not including Kiawah.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 02:37:08 PM by James Morgan »

Jay Flemma

Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 02:58:03 PM »
Wild Dunes is not the same course it was when it opened...and now we have seen designs better than it open up as well.  However it does have historical value and some interesting holes.  I wholeheartedly recommend Bulls Bay and CC Charleston over it if you can get on, Harbour Town or Kiawah (ocean) if you cannot.

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 03:04:05 PM »
I have not played Wild Dunes, but somewhere I remember reading that Mike Strantz had a hand in it.

Does anyone know if this is true and if so, how much of his work remains?
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 03:11:12 PM »
James, I was not just thinking about Charleston.  Hilton Head and Savannah are not far.  Neither are the cousrses on Pawleys Island.  In the Charleston area some of the private clubs will let you on if your pro calls.  I also like Seabrook as a destination resport.  Part of the drawback for me at Wild Dunes is the crush of people.  The same is true of Kiawah, although I like some of the courses there.  
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tim Pitner

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 03:22:14 PM »
Tommy (and/or others),

Very unusual for me, my friend has planned the whole trip and I'm deciding whether to get onboard.  I think we'd fly into Columbia, go to Charleston and then Augusta.  I think we only have three days before we need to be in Augusta.  If I'm persuaded that Wild Dunes isn't worth our time and I came up with a substitute plan, maybe he'd abandon Wild Dunes.  

I've played Kiawah Ocean and liked it a lot, but that's off the table for this trip.  Also, my friend is a scratch player (or very nearly) and might not share my affection for an older, 6300 yard course.  

Any thoughts?

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 03:22:26 PM »
If you can arrange access I would highly recommend Bulls Bay.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 03:45:02 PM »
From Columbia you have a number of options.  Hilton Head is only another hour.  Atlanta is not all that far.  Pinehurst while not real close is also possible.  If your friend is set on Wild Dunes I would go.  It is a good place. It is crowded but the courses are still good.  They just would not be my first or second choice.  I would try to get access to some of the private clubs.  Charleston is a great place to go in and of itself.  Great food and the battery is cool.  If it is a choice between going and not going, I would go.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Andy Doyle

Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 03:53:52 PM »
Tim:

I played the Links Course at Wild Dunes for the first time just about a month ago.  I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Housing does clutter up some of the scenery, but I don't think it really encroaches on the course too much.  I did manage to hit a house on the back nine, but that was more a factor of my horrendous slice, helped by a 3 club wind!  The monstrosity they build behind the 18th green does completely ruin the visuals of a beautiful golf hole.

Having only played it once I don't remember every detail, but there were some pretty cool holes.  Number 5 is a par 5 with the green tucked behind a dune ridge.  Unless you were in the perfect layup area you had to hit mostly blind over a sand dune (and a tree in my case) to the green - an approach shot sort of like the tee shot to the Dell hole at Lahinch.

10 is a short par 4 that runs right up the ridge of a dune with an undulating fairway falling off to both sides.  12 is a tough par 3 with an elevated tee exposed to the wind.  The finishing 3 holes are great:  16 is a short par 3 with the tiniest green I've ever seen; 17 and 18 are great finishers along the ocean.  The drive on 18 is particularly tough - you have to decide how much of the dogleg to cut off or flirt with blowing it straight through the fairway onto the beach.

I think the course is about 6700 yards from the tips.  If the wind is blowing anything like it was for us, that should be plenty of course for most people.

http://www.wilddunes.com/golf.php?page=30

Andy
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 03:55:18 PM by Andy Doyle »

JMorgan

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 03:55:52 PM »
James, I was not just thinking about Charleston.  Hilton Head and Savannah are not far.  Neither are the cousrses on Pawleys Island.  In the Charleston area some of the private clubs will let you on if your pro calls.  I also like Seabrook as a destination resport.  Part of the drawback for me at Wild Dunes is the crush of people.  The same is true of Kiawah, although I like some of the courses there.  

Tommy/Jerry/Tim, what I've been trying to figure out -- without playing them to find out -- is how are some of the lower cost public courses that are not on the usual GCA radar/rota, like Strantz's courses, Dye's notables, even the Love guys, etc.  A number of the piloried and semi-piloried Atlas archies have designed courses in the Charleston area -- the Jones family, Art Hills, Arnie's Rivertowne, Fazio as mentioned, and so on.  I am wondering if there aren't a few hidden gems among the various public courses even as far as HH or south of Savannah/north to Myrtle Beach that have heretofore gone unnoted.

My in-laws live on Seabrook, so I've played the Jones and Byrd courses a gazillion times.  I need to get my father-in-law and b-in-law off the island, and beyond Kiawah, for once!

Matt MacIver

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 04:31:17 PM »
I played Wild Dunes - Links a few years back and it wasn't my cup of tea, though the last 2-3 holes certainly are.  Others here have said so before, but hurricanes have ravaged the course(s) and changed things materially.  

I really liked RiverTowne and to some extent, Dunes West, which are public tracks 5-10 miles away.  

Scott Szabo

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 04:44:11 PM »
A friend of mine has proposed a visit to Wild Dunes in Charleston as part of a trip to the Masters.  I don't take that many golf trips so I don't want to waste any.  What's new at Wild Dunes?  I recall reading here that some condos have negatively affected the Links course.  How is the Links course holding up?  Is the other course, Harborside, any good?  Any thoughts on alternative courses, besides Kiawah, between Charleston and Augusta (and, no, I'm not trying to get on Bulls Bay, Yeaman's or Charleston CC)?

P.S. I tried a search here on Wild Dunes but it didn't yield what I'm looking for.  

Tim, are you kidding me?  Pass up a trip to the Masters?  Do you know how many people would do anything to be able to go? (unless this is something that you have access to on a regular basis)
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Tim Pitner

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 04:59:31 PM »
Scott,

It's just for Wednesday's practice round.  I've never seen the course in person, so I would appreciate that.  I want to make sure the golf courses we play are worth it too.  

Tony Petersen

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 05:30:51 PM »
Tim -

Another option is head to Augusta early and play some of the courses in the area of note. Specifically, Palmetto Golf Club in Aiken is a great time, and an even greater atmosphere. I believe they open the course to the public for one week a year, which is the week of The Masters. Augusta CC is another fun course, though I have heard my fair share of criticism on GCA. Bottom line is your playing next to Augusta National, which is pretty cool. Another course I haven't played but have heard good things about is Vaughn Taylors home club. Can't remember the name, but I have a feeling that the treehouse (as well as Google) could help you with that... It's a public around Augusta

Happy Holidaze  ;D ;D ;D
Ski - U - Mah... University of Minnesota... "Seven beers followed by two Scotches and a thimble of marijuana and it's funny how sleep comes all on it's own.”

Scott Szabo

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2006, 05:52:27 PM »
Tim, too bad it's Wednesday.  I lucked out and got practice round tickets for Tuesday.  Hadn't thought much about bringing the clubs along, but Tony's comment about Augusta Country Club is intriguing.  I would assume it's private, however, and probably off limits.
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Mike Hoak

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2006, 05:57:46 PM »
Tim and Tony,

Be forewarned that Augusta area tee times are extremely hard to come by and outrageously expensive the week of the Masters.  My father and I looked into such a plan three years ago.  Most of the courses are booked as much as 6 months out.  The River Club which is a solid course and a fun play, is a great deal at its normal rate of around $50.  The week of the Masters they get $188 and that was three years ago.  An even better example is Jones Creek, their normal green fee is around $60.  They quoted us $300 per player.  Mind you, we played Harbour Town for something like $230 or $240.  Golf in Augusta makes for a good trip, but be ready to pay and plan ahead if you are going Masters Week.  The same goes for hotels.  A run down Days Inn will cost you as much as an oceanfront suite at the Naples Ritz.

With all that being said, do not turn down the opportunity to see Augusta during Masters week--be it practice or tournament round.  Every serious golfer should make the trek at least once in their lives.  Just don't stay or play there.

And yes, Palmetto accept public tee times MAsters week, which is a rare treat.  If you know someone there, they also have some of the best Masters parties going.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 06:02:23 PM by Mike Hoak »

Michael Whitaker

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2006, 06:58:41 PM »
You can play Palmetto Golf Club in Aiken the week of the Master's for around $150. Just call the club and they will discuss the arrangements with you. The members are asked to not play that week so they can squeeze in as many visitor rounds as possible.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Jay Flemma

Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 08:08:33 PM »
Are reynolds or cuscowilla doable masters week as well?  whats the driving time?


Joe Fairey

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 09:26:34 PM »
Have played at Reynolds Masters Week on more than one occasion...little over hour drive...as you might expect the courses are somewhat crowded..really, anything good within two hours of Augusta will be...

Paul Payne

Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2006, 09:49:58 AM »
Tony is correct,

You should really play Palmetto. It used to be THE course in the area prior to ANGC being built.

As I have mentioned here before you should also try to play the Aiken CC or Highland course as it is called. A 1912 charmer. It only plays about 6100 yards from the tips but you won't be disapointed. The greens are magnificent.

If you want an experience that is a more modern course try Mount Vintage Plantation in Norht Augusta. It is relatively unknown (they do play an LPGA event there) but it is a beautiful course and plays over rolling terrain that is similar to ANGC. They will charge a high fee during masters week, I believe it may be around $250 to play.

Enjoy your trip and don' skip the Masters.


Rob_Waldron

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2006, 10:35:18 AM »
In the past few years I have made a trip to Pinehurst pre-Masters. The Masters has little or no impact on golf in the Pinehurst area.

Last year I flew to Atlanta I played at Reynolds Plantation prior to the Masters. Reynolds is 75 miles from both Augusta and Atlanta. There is a definite impact from the Toonament. It is the busiest week of the year at Reynolds and Cuscawilla. I made my reservations in November last year.

Mike Young just opened his new course Long Shadow east of Atlanta. There is probably less impact the closer you are to Atlanta.

Columbia also bears the burden of Masters traffic.

Course conditioning is not exactly primo at this time of year. The bermuda generally has not come back. However it is still warmer than the northeast!  

Jimmy Chandler

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Re:Thoughts on Wild Dunes?
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2007, 11:48:53 PM »
So my (non-golfing) wife are headed down to South Carolina in late April, and I'm trying to pick a resort to stay for 2-3 days that has golf for me and other stuff for her.  For those of you who have played at both resorts, would you choose Wild Dunes or Hilton Head?  Are any of the Hilton Head courses other than Harbour Town worth playing?

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