[Bob_Huntley]

Not to interfere with Matt Ward's betting thread but does anyone think that Trevino ended Jacklin's career and Faldo did in Norman?

Bob

[Tom_Doak]

Trevino pretty much destroyed Jacklin's career, and Jacklin has said as much.

Norman was probably on the way out anyway due to the coming of Tiger Woods, Faldo just spoiled his last hurrah.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Agreed

What about Seve after Jack won the 86 Masters?

Ernie Els has not won a major I think since he said Tiger was heads above everyone else.

[Gary Daughters]

This reminds of something a colleague observed last week about watching the '96 Masters replay.. how it looks like a totally different game than the one played now, and how the leader board is a gallery of people whose careers would never be the same after the advent of Tiger, who would win the next year.

Just for fun, here are the top 15.

Faldo      -12
Noman    - 7
Mickelson -6
Nobilo      -5
Hoch       -4
Waldorf    -4
Love       -3
Maggert  -3
Pavin      -3
Frost      -2
McCarrron -2
Els         -1
Janzen   -1
Tway     -1
Calcavecchia E
Couples    E

[Gary Slatter]

Do you really think their careers were ended by another player?  Jacklin is here next week and now I have something to ask him.  I think boxers can have their career ended by other boxers, I used to think Jacklin's career ended when he became so successful.  Ernie's knee operation put his career on hold but did not end it.  Tiger may delay quite a few careers, but he 50% of events that he does not compete in will still allow some great careers.  
Great thread!
Has over use of irrigation ended any careers?

[John Foley]

I was a huge Norman fan and that day just crushed me. I wanted that win for him.

Didn't Norman have a few good tourneys after this, not just at the Masters but on tour & the other majors

[Geoffrey Childs]

Gary

Boxers get physically battered to the point where they can't perform at a high level any longer.

Golfers (can) get mentally battered in the same way.  Golf is as much a mental game as boxing is physical. Greg Norman had the Masters he coveted so much in his hands.  That final heartbreaking loss was as tough a sporting event to watch as I've ever endured.

[PThomas]

I wonder if Phil's ended at the US Open last year

[Mike_Cirba]

Not to interfere with Matt Ward's betting thread but does anyone think that Trevino ended Jacklin's career and Faldo did in Norman?

Bob

Bob,

Agreed, and then Tiger did in Faldo at Augusta.   I think that was the time that Nick realized his reign at the top was over, sadly.

At his best, Faldo was a machine, and almost Hoganian in his precision.

[Glenn Spencer]

Not to interfere with Matt Ward's betting thread but does anyone think that Trevino ended Jacklin's career and Faldo did in Norman?

Bob

Bob,

Agreed, and then Tiger did in Faldo at Augusta.   I think that was the time that Nick realized his reign at the top was over, sadly.

At his best, Faldo was a machine, and almost Hoganian in his precision.

Are you speaking of  Faldo and Woods playing together? Might be the case, but my recollection of 96 was that Faldo was already not the same guy and he just took an opportunity that came his way. He knew that Norman might not be able to hold it and played a good round. I think Faldo was done whether Tiger showed up or not. I thought Faldo did Norman in a lot earlier at the 90 British in the 3rd Round.

[Glenn Spencer]

I wonder if Phil's ended at the US Open last year

I don't know if it ended, but I seriously doubt that it will ever be the same.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoff Childs,

Seve's hooked 4-iron into the pond on # 15 was his own doing, not Jack's.

Tom Doak,

Norman, who was a phenomenal driver, hooked his tee shot into the woods on # 1, an early sign of what lay ahead.  
I think the Die was cast before Norman or Faldo stood on the first tee, but, I can't tell you if it began when he woke, had breakfast, hit balls or putted, but, I do know that it was cast before he hit his opening tee shot on Sunday

Bob Huntley

That woman in the form fitting dress having dinner with you, your wife and friends almost ended my friend's career.

[JESII]

Geoff Childs,

Seve's hooked 4-iron into the pond on # 15 was his own doing, not Jack's.

I'd like to hear Seve's version of that. Surely he is the only other person on the planet that believes your remark in quotes...

[Gary Slatter]

Another interesting thread - I still think only a golfer can end his own playing career, losing to another player can be a major setback but a player has to self-destruct, and SELF is in capitals.   However, does anyone think Greg Norman can end Sergio's career?   Can F&F elevated TPC greens end low ball hitters careers?

[David Stamm]

Geoff, Els did win another major after making those comments. His Open win at Muirfield. In fact he said that's what made it all the more special, to win it in Tiger's era.

I don't think Trevino as a player ended Jacklin's carrer, I think Jacklin commented on Trevino's chip in at the Open that really ended his carrer. He specifically mentions that shot in past interviews.

I played w/  a gentleman who is the head of the tour support dept. for Callaway about 6 weeks ago. I asked him about Mickelson and if he could shed some more light on what happened at WF. He told me that Mick. had told him that he was in shock that he even had a lead on 18 because he literally would look at a target on the tee and he would hit it in the exact opposite direction. He felt he had lost total control of the ball from the beginning of the round and the only reason he was in the lead was because he was playing some of the best short shots of his career. The gentleman also said in his opinion, that he wasn't sure if Mick. would bounce back from this one because it was in hands.

[Bob_Huntley]

Geoff Childs,

Bob Huntley

That woman in the form fitting dress having dinner with you, your wife and friends almost ended my friend's career.

Pat,

And my marriage.

Bob

[Bob_Huntley]

Geoff Childs,

Bob Huntley

That woman in the form fitting dress having dinner with you, your wife and friends almost ended my friend's career.

Pat,

And my marriage.

Bob

May I be so bold as to inquire just exactly what in the bejeezus you guys are talking about....and where I might get a glimpse of this vision myself?

David,

Pat had arranged for his friends, who I had not yet met, to join me at the club on a Thursday. The previous evening my wife and I were dining with some friends at Marinus, the Bernadus Lodge restaurant. One of our number was  a recent bride of our host, dressed in a patterned leopard skin silk dress with a fair amount of decollatage showing. No matter how hard I tried in my conversation to look her in the eyes, it was a losing battle.

The next day Pat's friends remarked that they saw us at the next table but had no idea I would be hosting them the following day. I must say that one of their group was still muttering to himself that he had wished he had known who I was, so that he could have approached the table and got a close-up.

Dave, no pictures were taken that night, sorry.

Bob

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, there is no way in the world that Seve hooks that 4 iron under any other conceivable circumstances other than Jack roaring back.  Seve could hangle being chased by a golfer.  But this was not a golfer.  This was a ghost - the ghost of greatness past.  This is right out of Dickens. Neither Seve nor any mortal could handle being hunted down by that ghost.

I suppose you're going to tell me that Seve missing his tee time at a U.S. Open was due to Nicklaus or some other ghosts.

Or, that perhaps Monty missed his 6 iron into # 18 at WFW due to some other unearthly pursuer.

Only one person's hands are attached to the club, and that person alone bears the responsibility for proper execution.

A 4-rion isn't like hitting a 1-iron.

And, that wasn't a just a little miss, that was a terrible shot.

My friend didn't know that Bob, who was sitting at the table next to him, was to be his host the following day.

My friend's party indicated that the table next to them was having a very good time.  My friend admitted to having his eyes glued on the woman in the leopard dress rather than on the menu and his table companions.

Unfortunately, as Bob said, there's no photographic evidence of the evening, as my curiosity was definitely aroused.

[Tim Copeland]

I wonder if Phil's ended at the US Open last year

Nah...Phils career took a major hit when he had to buy a house in Ohio for........

[PThomas]

I wonder if Phil's ended at the US Open last year

Nah...Phils career took a major hit when he had to buy a house in Ohio for........

Tim:  what am I missing here?  what's the end of your story??

[JESII]

You do not really want to know...

[JESII]

Mucci,

Next thing you'll say about Seve is that it was the architecture of the 15th more than the nerves of hitting that shot under those circumstances.

Those circumstances were created and dictated by the fact that Nicklaus had just gone on one of the great runs in the history of golf.

[Jim Franklin]

Sully -

Yes...we do want to know.

[Robert Kimball]

Norman had some history with this sort of thing. I think he has destined to lose that day no matter who was chasing. That was the one Major he probably wanted most, and it appeared (of course we will never know for sure) that he was simply pressing and trying too damn hard NOT to lose.  

He admitted to being "flat" for the playoff with Fuzzy in '84, and there was the infamous "Faldo Thrashing" in the '90 Open at St. Andrews (I think it was something like 67 vs 76).

I am admittedly a Norman fan, and I think the jury is still out on how he will be remembered in golf lore. As a Palmer-esque figure who was lovable and charismatic in defeat (making him seem more "human" and "average"); or as an example of unfulfilled talent?

And the big question: Will my autographed copy of "Shark Attack" ever be worth something on ebay??  

[PThomas]

yes and yes

and Casper did so to Arnie at Olympic

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