[Philip Gawith]

I made my debut today at this famous course and what a pleasure it was. Teeing off at 2pm in mid November was a bit ambitious so we had to skip three holes but what i saw was very pleasing.

Main impressions:

- more undulation than i expected.
- excellent variety in the greens. They were putting quite fast in November - I shudder to think what they are like in June. That must really make the course a serious challenge (it has taken me a long time to realise - i am a slow swat!  - that one of the factors that most distinguishes these old courses is their greens - they just aren't built up in anything like anything you see on a modern course, and Woking is very true to this tradition. That does not mean they are flat - there is  some very serious internal contour - but they are not the artificial, elevated creations one now expects).
- the pleasure of seeing the famous 4th with its central bunkers, and playing the celebrated short 2nd.
- one of the best clubhouses around, with excellent views of golf on the 14th, 15th and 18th holes.
- the  quirky start, with eminently driveable par four 1st, and then very long par three second. no par five until the 14th hole, and then two in a row.
- fantastic history - Bobby Jones and Francis Oiumet playing in losing US Walker Cup team against local club, Bernard Darwin as president for 20 or more years, etc...

Here are a few pictures, starting with the 2nd hole, including a number of the 4th and the 14th heading back towards the clubhouse.

[Andrew Summerell]

Philip,

I was there in early July & yes, the greens are quite fast.

[Darren_Kilfara]

I've not yet made it out to Woking, but I know people who swear by this course and think it one of the best of all the heathland courses in the Surrey-Sussex belt. (RT, if you're out there...I seem to remember that you're one of them, no?) Funnily enough, I think this is the first time I've seen pictures of the course, and it doesn't look anything like what I was expecting to see! No reason why - maybe the fact that the course is green and not super-brown and firm/fast has something to do with it, but it's mostly just about how one can build up a vague picture of something in his head over time that really has no connection to reality!

Anyway, thanks for sharing these photos, Philip - you've certainly enlighted at least one GCAer with them!

Cheers,
Darren

[Andrew Summerell]

maybe the fact that the course is green and not super-brown and firm/fast has something to do with it

Darren,

Woking wasn't that green in July.

[Evan_Green]

Thanks for the pictures.

Just curious, what is the golf season in London?

[Ryan Crago]

thanks for the pictures...  unfortunately, no photo of the 3rd green - one of my personal favourites.

in the photo with the 11th tee sign, is that actually the 6th hole we see?

[Philip Gawith]

Yes Ryan, that is indeed the 6th. And sorry I missed the 3rd green - you are right, together with one or two others it has some serious contour!

Evan - the season is all year round. The courses never close - only time this happens is early in the morning when they are sometimes frozen if there has been a heavy frost, or (occasional) if there has been snow. If it stays cold then the course may be closed for a few days. I would think these conditions apply to London courses up to 10 days each winter, probably not more.

Sean - I think that was what I was struggling to say all along re Huntercombe. Not that the greens lack undulation internally, but that many are just not built up at all - they are absolutely flush with the fairway, hence the depth perception issues. The best examples at Huntercombe would be 6, 9,12,14 and 18.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thanks for the pictures.

Just curious, what is the golf season in London?

A difficult question Evan in some respects. The UK golf season is strictly 12 months, that is to say courses rarely close for long periods, in the South we do not have deep frosts very often, we do get heavy rain so courses are waterlogged and sometimes need to be closed. What we dont get between October 1st and March 1st are conditions where we need to irrigate, in fact Irrigation often starts May 1st, we often have as much as half of the summer period without the need to Irrigate at all, due to natural rainfall, though rarely in a monthly block. In the UK Winter conditions are less than perfect and there is no firm and fast even on our better links, a drive however is still likely to run 40 yards on our seaside courses. from mid October thru to April 1st we have winter rules where we are allowed to lift clean and place, due in part to mud collection but also because we leave fairways longer say 35mm (although when cut the cut is probably 20mm) for most of the time. Winter golf in the UK means wrapping up warm , id say half the UK golfers play in the winter half put the clubs away. A typical weekday winters day might only involve 30 rounds by our members, summer its 150. Weekends are still very full.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Yes Ryan, that is indeed the 6th. And sorry I missed the 3rd green - you are right, together with one or two others it has some serious contour!

Evan - the season is all year round. The courses never close - only time this happens is early in the morning when they are sometimes frozen if there has been a heavy frost, or (occasional) if there has been snow. If it stays cold then the course may be closed for a few days. I would think these conditions apply to London courses up to 10 days each winter, probably not more.

Sean - I think that was what I was struggling to say all along re Huntercombe. Not that the greens lack undulation internally, but that many are just not built up at all - they are absolutely flush with the fairway, hence the depth perception issues. The best examples at Huntercombe would be 6, 9,12,14 and 18.

Nice pictures Philip. Woking looks very nice, shame its in 'that belt' of very good Surrey courses in some respects it gets overlooked.

[Marc Haring]

Thanks for the pictures Phillip.

It is a glorious course. My one and only visit resulted in a rare good round where I hit nearly everything straight and you need to. That round was clearly in the category of sublime/euphoric. There is some serious contouring going on in those greens, in fact I would say that was one thing that stood Woking out from it’s illustrious neighbours. I think they had a couple of devotees to the club many years ago that reworked the original Dunn designs. Everything is in Ran’s write up.

A couple of observations about the 4th. The bunker was of course key but I also thought the small green that sloped seriously away and the proximity of that railway fence were also critical. When I played it, I laid up with a three iron but my partner successfully went for the ‘gap’. He got his birdie with a simple pitch in and I managed to hold the green for my par. Perfect strategic golf.

Part of the charm is the going back one hundred years factor that you get at such clubs. For instance, that tatty looking tee block on the view of the 6th. So understated but they really don’t worry about such things.

It would have be the absolute number one contender for hidden gem. It is accessible and it is a gem but talk about hidden away. We couldn’t find it with sat-nav and then when we pointed out to the barman that this was one difficult place to find he simply replied, “that’s just the way we like it”.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Thank you for the pics - I haven't been there for some time, but used to play it occasionally.  I agree that it's hard to find.  You don't need Sat Nav, just a decent road map.  

[Philip Gawith]

Sean - my education is incomplete! I look forward to playing those courses and seeing what you describe!

Marc - you are right in all you say. If you look at the last three pictures of the 4th, in two of them you can see my drive, just past the front bunker in position A, from where it took a misjudged pitch and a poor chip to run up a 5, negating my great tee shot! The last one I think gives a sense of the slope you were referring to. The flag was right at the front which meant i did not focus on the slope too much, and partly contributed to the sad tale i have just related!

I think we should have a heathland GCA event of which Woking could be a part.

[Noel Freeman]

I've played Woking three times and it is a much different winter course than summer.. In the summer it is quite short due to the firm and fast conditions--one can drive the 1st easily with 5 wood.  I wouldnt venture as far as some of the people Darren knows to claim it top of the Heath.. It would easily be below Swinley, both Sunningdales, Addington and Berkshire Red in my estimation.  I do prefer it to Walton Heath easily b/c of the nature of the hazards, the cunningness of the design and the great greens..

[Marc Haring]

Of course it is only really ever compared to it's immediate neighbours, Worplesdon and Westhill. Personally I would put it top of that particular short list. They are all quite similar though. Here's # 10 (I think it is) @ Worplesdon. Similar to # 15 perhaps? Haven't a clue what course came first.

[Tom_Doak]

Darren:

I would not call it the best of the heathland courses, but it might be the most interesting of them.  There are some greens and some strategies there I have not seen anywhere since.  I robbed the strategy of the par-4 third hole for the eighth at Pacific Dunes, confident that no one would know where it came from!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Great pictures Philip and I'm with those who rate it very highly not least because of the greens.  

Does anyone have a copy of the club history because it would make a fascinating read? It's a very important club and underappreciated.
Woking was the first Heathland course. 1893
Woking was the first place Darwin remembers fairways at a different height to the areas around them.  I.e. heather/rough is a new hazard.
Woking has had a great membership cf Darwin above.
See Ran's profile to appreciate the role of Patton and Low in the development of GCA.

Despite above it's also cheaper to play than any of the other courses mentioned on this thread.  A great bargain and unmissable to anyone with an interest in GCA.


(With reference to another current thread why did 'Sean' delete a post that makes a nonsense of follow ups?).

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, thanks for sharing that, for the 8th at Pacific Dunes is one of my favorites on the course. Phillip thank you as well.

[Kevin Pallier]

Philip

Thanks for the photos - I probably enjoyed Worplesdon (just) moreso than Woking and ahead of West Hill - but it was indeed a fun day out.

[Chris Burgard]

Tom,

For those of us who haven't had the chance to play either Woking or PD...what is the strategy that you borrowed??

CB

[Tom_Doak]

Chris / Tiger:

The 3rd at Woking is a dogleg right par 4.  You play the tee shot straightaway along the base of a hillside on the right, then the second shot plays to a green set into the side of the hill, with a big nasty bunker at the front right and a falloff straight through the green.

I happened to play Woking in 1982 with the secretary at the time, and when we got to that hole, he explained to me how it worked.  If you cheated to the right off the tee, then your second shot was more straightaway off a tough stance, and the hillside didn't help you ... a strong shot was likely to go through the green.  But if instead you kept your tee shot well out to the left, you could use the slope to play a bank shot around the bunker which would hold the green.

By the time we were building the 8th hole at Pacific Dunes, I had the perception that too many of the holes built earliest were favoring a left-to-right play.  The 8th had to be another dogleg right, but I started trying to think of a dogleg right which would reward a draw on the tee shot or second shot ... and the 3rd at Woking popped into my head.  So we hollowed out the area around the right of the front greenside bunker, and gave players a slot to play through that side, which is best seen and used from a long left tee shot.  The green isn't exactly the same -- less back-to-front slope, and the back right is certainly more receptive than at Woking -- but I think the concept worked excellently there.  That was one of the 2-3 least interesting holes prior to construction, and I would put it in the top half of holes at the finish.

[RT]

Woking is a classy course, understated, some very interesting greens and surrounds.  A certain uniqueness that offers up some nice contrast to West Hill and Worpelsdon, and if you stretch the boundary a bit the New Zealand Club.

A definite course for a GCA event, without reservation.  A wonderful intimate terrace right behind 14 green.

[TEPaul]

Philip:

That bunker in the middle of the fairway you took a few photos of is the very one that started everything off in inland strategic golf, isn't it? That's the one Paton and Low placed thereby starting the row, right? It has to be one of a handful of the most famous bunkers in the history of golf architecture but yet it looks so sublimely simple. As Behr quoted Shelley, "immovably unquiet"---just the way nature should be as an opponent on a golf course.

[Philip Gawith]

TEP - indeed it is. I was vaguely aware of its significance when I played the hole and, as you suggest, it looks fairly innocuous for something of such import! I wish I could have taken a picture of the hole which captured the train thundering by on the right hand side!

Maybe you can tell us more about the row to which you refer?

Was that "immovably unquiet" phrase used by Behr in relation to this bunker, or in a different context?

It is good that Shelley has made it onto GCA, but it is particularly appropriate on this thread since there is a tomb to Shelley in University College, Oxford - where yours truly spent a few of his callow years.

[TEPaul]

"Was that "immovably unquiet" phrase used by Behr in relation to this bunker, or in a different context?"

Philip:

No, actually Behr used that Shelley quote ("Immovably unquiet") as an analogy of the differences between strategic architecture and penal architecture. It was used in the article in which Behr took on Joshua Crane, the same guy Tom MacWood thinks no one back then took seriously.  

[T_MacWood]

Thanks for the photos Phillip.

The old clubhouse has not changed in all those years. It was the scene of one of the most famous shots in golf. CH Alison got up and down from the roof in a Oxford & Cambridge match.

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