[John Foley]

Does anyone know whose production company did the Shell's program? I seemed to think the reincarnation in the 90's was Nicklaus's group. They seemed to do a pretty good job w/ a small team that leapfrogged ahead of each other. It would be interesting to find out the costs associated w/ producing it and if The Golf Channell was interested in playing it. This Big Break stuff is unwatchable!!

I beleive the last SWWG was where Couples & Calcavechia played in Monterey (The Preserve??) where a camera man was killed. I wonder if that had anything to do w/ it's demise.

One last point - Sully - moving some DI back in the Palestra would be SOOO cool. Aren't their still a few games a year played there?

[PThomas]

Does anyone know whose production company did the Shell's program? I seemed to think the reincarnation in the 90's was Nicklaus's group. They seemed to do a pretty good job w/ a small team that leapfrogged ahead of each other. It would be interesting to find out the costs associated w/ producing it and if The Golf Channell was interested in playing it. This Big Break stuff is unwatchable!!

I beleive the last SWWG was where Couples & Calcavechia played in Monterey (The Preserve??) where a camera man was killed. I wonder if that had anything to do w/ it's demise.

One last point - Sully - moving some DI back in the Palestra would be SOOO cool. Aren't their still a few games a year played there?

how'd the cameraman get killed John??

and I also think Jack's group was behind the new SWWG

[Matt_Cohn]

I think you could make the case that Augusta National owes us much more than Pine Valley does.

I think Augusta does some charitable work, although I don't know the details.

[John Foley]

Paul -  Copied this from a GD interview Couples did

There was another tragedy last year -- you were playing a Shell's match with Mark Calcavecchia when a forklift being used as a camera tower toppled and killed a cameraman, Brian Blodgett. What happened?

Calc and I were playing, just two good buddies on a beautiful day. I made a putt on the second hole, took the ball out of the hole, and just as Joey put back the pin, you could hear, "Oh! Oh!" or "No!" We all looked. I mean the whole gallery -- five or six hundred people -- could see this. And you could see the forklift tipping over. I looked the other way. A few doctors ran down while Calc and I stood by the green. Then we heard everything was OK. But by noon, it didn't look very good. They were saying his vital signs were OK, but he's unconscious. And the guy who was driving the forklift looked as if he had some broken bones. They brought in a helicopter, so we finally went up to the clubhouse. It was very odd, because people were acting like everything was fine. Then about a quarter to one, Mark and I got into the carts to drive down to the third hole, and the guy in my cart had a radio on. Somebody said, "Get the players up to the head pro's office." Right then I knew something was wrong.

We walked in and Frank Chirkinian [TV producer] was in there with a couple of other people. As soon as we walked in, Frank goes, "We lost him -- we lost him." It was a horrific five minutes.

[David Stamm]

Paul T,

A cameraman was killed at The Preserve in Carmel during filming. I believe it happened at the Par 3 2nd. The camera tower collapsed that he was on. They actually had to come back at a later time (I don't know how long) and finish filming. They show the episode from time to time on The Golf Channel.

[George Pazin]

No.

 

I miss the Palestra. I miss Fitzgerald Field House even more.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I stand completely opposed to the idea behind this thread; in fact I want to see the opposite happen.

Let me give an example, when I was growing up Jungles were magical places, travel was 'exotic' and every four years or so I got to go to Twickenham and watch the all Blacks or the Springboks come and play rugby.  Man they were frightening! Enough time passed between visits that each team that came had new heroes and only a few of the old guys.  We didn’t know what to expect but we knew we were in awe of them.  Now because of TV revenues they tour every year and I can watch all their games in my front room.

In short once upon a time when I was young and before television filmed everything that moved or didn't or was boring etc etc etc there was a thing called mystique and the world is a poorer place for its absence.

I now feel no desire to go to jungles, I feel like I've seen everything before I even get there and I'm fed up with he amount of sport on the TV.  It's highly unlikely I'll ever get to Pine Valley but if I do I want certain freshness about the experience. I want to discover things for myself. Please god let them keep TV away from a few good things.

[Dan Boerger]

Wow. Talk about an unbelievable day ... a round a Pine Valley and then a doubleheader at the Palestra. Throw in Tony Luke's between the two (best Cheesteak in town, IMO) and it would be one for the record books.

[Tim_Weiman]

Based on my experience at the 1985 Walker Cup, I hate the idea of televising the event. All that does is attract more people and compromise the intimacy that the Walker Cup once had.

If you really want to see appreciate the architecture of Pine Valley, attending the Crump Cup is an excellent opportunity.

Despite the strip club analogy, if you don't want to attend the Crump Cup you probably aren't that interested in the architecture.

[Doug Ralston]

Who gives  damn if the snobby bastards think they and their course are too good for us? ...... Well, me, for one. What a crock of crap that the members of the supposedly #1 course think we should not even see pictures, like a 3-yr-old keeping his toy from others; "Mine! Mine!".

Yes, I WOULD like to see the course I hear so much about. And there is NO CHANCE I will ever get there live. Exclusivity [say self-agrandization]; is repugnant in itself, but when it is combines with such a reputed 'masterpiece', it becomes sad indeed.

Now, let me tell you what I REALLY think ...........  

Doug

[Patrick_Mucci]

1985 seems like a long time ago, in fact it is a long time ago. My generation has never had the chance to see this course on television.

Glenn, why do you feel entitled to see this course on TV and why do you think they have an obligation to show the golf course on TV ?

Do they 'owe' us a Shell's or a Walker Cup after Merion?

I'd rather see NGLA get the Walker Cup.
PV has already held one.

Could the golf channel pick up Sunday at the Crump Cup?


Match play rarely fares well on TV.

How about a Curtis Cup?

Shirley, you jest

It seems that every other great course has been seen on television, why not this one?

I think it may be the opposite of what you state.
Many clubs with good to great golf courses have no interest in hosting events, especially when you consider the problems associated with doing so.

Yeah, I know, membership doesn't want it, but there has to be a line somewhere.

There is.
The memberships want the course for their use and don't need or want the exposure that accompanies hosting an event.

Are you suggesting that these clubs televise the Class C, beaten 8 flight of the Club Championship ?

I think now that it has been 20 years, it is about time they give us all a present again and show an event of some kind.

There's nothing to gain by them doing so, unless you enjoy watching Martha Burke picket outside the gates.

The Crump seems to make the most sense.

If you think it through, thoroughly,  nothing about televising an event from PV makes sense.  There's too much downside.

However, if you visit Google Earth you can get a good feel for the golf course.

I also believe that the GAP Open was held at PV and spectators were welcome and I believe that the same is true of the Crump finals.

If you're that interested, make the trip.

Otherwise,

You'll get nothing and like it.

PV doesn't owe anyone anything.

[Gene Greco]

I'd rather see NGLA get the Walker Cup.
PV has already held one

So has NGLA - the first in 1922.

[Tim Copeland]

O

I made the trip when I was building ACE Club....one weekend I made the trip.........

and got promptly turned away at the gate.  The guy was nice enough but........

Nothing but a scorecard

[Glenn Spencer]

Patrick,

What other courses besides the National are we talking about here? I don't think it would kill them to host something. I asked the question earlier, maybe you would know. What was the memberships reaction to hosting in 85?

What are the downsides to TV and PV? I have thought about it and didn't come up with any answers. Couldn't they donate the TV money to one or many of the aforementioned charities? I imagine the audience would be substanial.

National would be fine by me, I think they are in the same boat as Pine Valley.

Match Play? The golf course would be the show. Amateur Match Play is usually more competitive than the pros. I think it would fare quite well.

I think Martha has learned her lesson and learned it well.


Tim Weiman,
For someone that knows me, that would be a stupid comment. You don't and it still is.

[Adam Clayman]

Thats not fair to Mr. Weiman.

This thread is the stupid thing.

Where do people get off thinking they should have some say in anything another entity should do?

[Glenn Spencer]

Thats not fair to Mr. Weiman.

This thread is the stupid thing.

Where do people get off thinking they should have some say in anything another entity should do?

Where do you get off saying what is fair and what isn't? Mr. Weiman made reference to my love of architecture, with no knowledge of it and I said it was a stupid comment. When were you consulted?

Pine Valley has enjoyed a LONG run as the #1 golf course in the world and I am sure that their dues and initiation reflect it. Did Crump not want anyone to see the place? Wasn't he in hotels? That seems to run opposite of not wanting anyone to enjoy your 'fantasy land.'  What do you think the reason for them hosting the 85 Walker Cup was? What has changed since that it no longer applies. A different generation would like to see it.

[Tim Copeland]

Dale Carnegie graduates are everywhere in this thread.....

[Mike_Sweeney]

Pine Valley has enjoyed a LONG run as the #1 golf course in the world and I am sure that their dues and initiation reflect it. Did Crump not want anyone to see the place? Wasn't he in hotels? That seems to run opposite of not wanting anyone to enjoy your 'fantasy land.'  What do you think the reason for them hosting the 85 Walker Cup was? What has changed since that it no longer applies. A different generation would like to see it.

I hit my first golf ball on a course at age 13 at the made famous by Ran Walnut Lane in Philly. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/walnutlane1.html I played high school golf in Philly and played a bunch of courses public and private around Philly including Merion, Whitemarsh, Radnor Valley, Bala, Tavistock ...

I probably drove past the Pine Valley area 1000 times going to and from The Jersey Shore as a kid.

29 years after that first ball at Walnut Lane, I played golf at Pine Valley.

My host took seven guest that trip, and I would guess that 100 guys would have taken my place on the first phone call from him.

It is a busy place, the members have to often set up games far in advance, and I don't think there is much day to day member play. It is a second club for 95+% of the membership.

Glenn, people are seeing Pine Valley, it just hasn't been you so far. The members seem very generous with the course by allowing a member to bring 7 guest on a given day. The Phlly Open was there recently, the 9/11 event, The Crump Cup is open to visitors. There is simple too much demand for the supply of 18 superb holes located with in a few hours of 20 million people! I am sure the members would like to have more access to their own club.

I can't imagine thinking that Pine Valley owes me anything, and I am really grateful for my 24 hours spent there.

Based on what I saw TV do to the Winged Foot courses this past summer, I would pass on a TV event at Pine Valley if I was a member.

[Glenn Spencer]

Mike Sweeney,

Thank you for you post. You make some great points. My point is not about their guest practices though. It is about the fact that I believe that every generation should have a chance to see the place. Obviously, some of the members in 85 felt it was not beneath them to host a televised tournament. I have looked at the USGA futures and nothing is on the horizon. I am just wondering if my/our time is going to come.

TEPaul,

I don't think that my not wanting to go to Pine Valley to walk around should lead someone to question my appreciation of architecture. If someone makes a stupid comment about me, I respond to it, I don't feel I have an edge. Adam Clayman says this is a stupid thread, and what right do I have to question what Pine Valley does, WELL, what right does he have to say that something is unfair? Makes sense doesn't it? My life will be complete hopefully, whether I play there or not, but I just wonder if it is going to happen or not (tv) and  if not, why?

[Pat Howard]

I will be at the '07 Crump Cup, somehow, someway!

[SPDB]

Otherwise,

You'll get nothing and like it.

PV doesn't owe anyone anything.

Yes it most certainly does. Pine Valley owes me a bunch of strokes from the last time I was there. It certainly wasn't my fault.

[Mike_Sweeney]

It is about the fact that I believe that every generation should have a chance to see the place.


 and  if not, why?

Because you don't have any friends who are members??!!

Every generation is seeing Pine Valley. Jim Sullivan and Jamie Slonis have played in The Crump Cup. My host was a legacy member. He is taking guys from his generation, not his Dad's. Again it just has not been you.

Please don't take the view that "every guy at Pine Valley, Merion and National are rich guys." It simply is not true. My oldest friend is a Merion member, and if you don't think he gets heat from his wife when the dues roll in during the Spring with three upcoming college bound kids, you would be incorrect.

[Glenn Spencer]

It is about the fact that I believe that every generation should have a chance to see the place.


 and  if not, why?

Because you don't have any friends who are members??!!

Every generation is seeing Pine Valley. Jim Sullivan and Jamie Slonis have played in The Crump Cup. My host was a legacy member. He is taking guys from his generation, not his Dad's. Again it just has not been you.

Please don't take the view that "every guy at Pine Valley, Merion and National are rich guys." It simply is not true. My oldest friend is a Merion member, and if you don't think he gets heat from his wife when the dues roll in during the Spring with three upcoming college bound kids, you would be incorrect.

Read my post again, if what I say actually matters. Ignore my words if you want, but I still not talking about their guest practices. What the hell is the rich guy comment about? I have a reasonable idea how clubs work. Where did any of my comments say anything about rich?

[Mike_Sweeney]

Read my post again, if what I say actually matters. Ignore my words if you want, but I still not talking about their guest practices. What the hell is the rich guy comment about? I have a reasonable idea how clubs work. Where did any of my comments say anything about rich?

This comment below, I took in that way. Honestly, it is just a discussion group. I am not ignoring. I am reading, maybe incorrectly.

Pine Valley has enjoyed a LONG run as the #1 golf course in the world and I am sure that their dues and initiation reflect it.

[Glenn Spencer]

Read my post again, if what I say actually matters. Ignore my words if you want, but I still not talking about their guest practices. What the hell is the rich guy comment about? I have a reasonable idea how clubs work. Where did any of my comments say anything about rich?

This comment below, I took in that way. Honestly, it is just a discussion group. I am not ignoring. I am reading, maybe incorrectly.

Pine Valley has enjoyed a LONG run as the #1 golf course in the world and I am sure that their dues and initiation reflect it.

Fair enough. I don't see much of a link there, but I guess I could see how you got there. My friends entire golf team went there for a weekend and stayed there. I am well aware that they don't have a problem with people playing it and they are good people. In my mind, all the more reason to ask my original question. It is not as if I am upset at not playing it or anything. Pine Valley is the king, I just don't see how a few cameras at the Crump would bother anybody. Webcast? Donate the profits? Stick something on 5,10 and 14 for all I care.

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