[Patrick_Mucci]

Early designs employed the use of mounds.

Most were constructed with debris, since it was easier and less costly to leave it on property rather than cart it away.

Some of these mounds had some very interesting shapes.

Some had some very interesting locations.

Today, debris mounds are rarely seen.

Didn't they add character and didn't they bring a unique flavor to golf courses in both look and challenge ?

Has creating and shaping debris mounds become a lost art ?

What courses have some unique mounds and what was their intended use, form, function or both ?

[paul cowley]

Timely thread Patrick....because I plan on incorporating a medium size debris mound squarely in the center of the  fairway, on the first hole, of a new course soon to be built in Maryland [as long as TP says its OK].

It might just trigger an avalanche of debris to come.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

The history of mounds on golf courses is an interesting one of an era. Read TommyN's "In My Opinion" piece on here that's called "In Tribute to the Ralph Miller Library" and you will see the evolution of mounding as a form of progressive hazard from the mind of J.A. Taylor.

Paul:

I love the idea of a small arrangement of a mound or mounds in the middle of that fairway in Maryland. Apparently creatively wacko minds think alike. Consequently, you might see that there is something of a collection of debris in the spot where those mounds should go. You see, everytime I go down there I stop at that nice food place on the left on the way to the course and order myself some of that seafood bisque, a Coke and whatever and put it all in a paper bag, and in every case when I'm done with it I deposit it firmly on the ground precisely where those mounds should go on that first hole. So there already is fairly good amount of debris there for you to cover up with a small arrangement of mounds.

It's right in the middle of the wide fairway and precisely in the "line of instinct" for most golfers on that hole. And you know me, I tend to want to name everything, so henceforth that collection of garbage I left for you to cover up with some earthen mounds will be called for evermore by all members of that club "The Max's Mess Mounds".

Pretty nice alliteration too, don't you think?  

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

I am not a big fan of mounding in general.

However, I am constantly amazed how much material is carted away from construction sites and how much is brought to construction sites nowadays.  It's a real waste of funds.

On Tuesday I saw a truck coming into Sebonack with fill for where the new cottages are being built.  On its way in, it passed a pile of 10,000 cubic yards of soil that was left over from construction of the golf course!

[TEPaul]

Paul:

Furthermore, you should know that mounds fit perfectly into Max's basic architectural mindset anyway as he was an architect who tended to stick on the convex side of things and shied from the concave side of things as he felt the convex angle was strong and enduring to the forces of Nature and the concave angle was weak and vulnerable to the forces of Nature.

Personally, I suspect this all derived from some searing event that took place when Max was about three in the tub back in New Jersey. What I don't know is if it was his mother in the bathroom with him or some nubile young Spanish upstairs maid. But I'm researching that as that curious event may have changed the course of American golf course architecture.

[Dean Paolucci]

Pat - Not only did debris mounds make it back to the restoration at GRCC but I would add the buried stone wall to your inquiry as a feature that adds wonderful dimension to the course.  Debris mounds take the shape of a hook feature in the left rough of 3, a dam configuration in 6 fairway which extends to the right rough on 7, two oval mounds in the left rough of 12, an outcropping behind the green on 14 and three beautiful shapes in the left rough on 15. Like the sister debris mounds buried stone walls have a similar affect.  They provide a unique continuity which visually binds the property together.  In our case it provides a tie to the farmhouse (the Superintendents residence today) and the boundary of the property.

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

Read post #4 very carefully and mull if over even more carefully and you may understand what happened to mounds in golf architecture in America.

In a phrase it appears that, once again, the world of American golf and architecture failed to heed the otherworldly sensibilities of the great Max Behr and consequently shunned the convex angle (mounds) thereby transmogrifying America into a land of golf courses that embraced the concave angle (bunkers and such).

In a word, all American golfers and American golf architects gave up on the virile and the strong and turned into a bunch of pussies.

[RDecker]

Tom,
Is the 10,000 cubic yards the highest elevation on Long Island now?

[TEPaul]

"On Tuesday I saw a truck coming into Sebonack with fill for where the new cottages are being built.  On its way in, it passed a pile of 10,000 cubic yards of soil that was left over from construction of the golf course!"

TomD:

What is this about? When we were there some time ago there was a mini-mountain of topsoil on Sebonak that I think we were told was slated to get hauled away.

What in the world is that about? I thought good topsoil was like earthen gold. Apparently C.B. did too after he realized it wasn't the thing to do to try to grow grass on straight neutral sand.  

[paul cowley]

Dean ....interesting post and a timely one again I must add, because I plan on creating some faux buried field walls as part of strategic storyline on at least two of the holes,#4 and #6, of the aforementioned course. [but once again, only if they pass Mr Pauls approval]....we have various amounts of fieldstone showing up in that vicinity and incorporating bits and pieces of them to accent the 'buried walls' might work well.

Part of my plan was not to present any of these ideas to Mr Paul until late in the day when his mind would be sufficiently swing oiled, but hey, from his previous posts its clear that he can get out of the gates [or box] quite early.

We might just have to retire that flask if we get through this one....nah, instead I think I'll make some kind of inscribed trophy out of it [maybe it could be used for the new clubs invitational 'TomPaul [in his] Cup'

[Dean Paolucci]

PC - Actually Mr. Paul has toured our site while it was in the final stages of construction with the GCA.  I hope it was a source of joy for him as it is for us.  I do not know where you are located but you are always welcome to visit Glen Ridge and I will show you our layout.

[Jim Franklin]

The Old White course at the Greenbrier has a hole named Mounds. It is #5 and is one of my favorite holes there. The mounds by the greensite offer an array of options for attacking the green and I loved it. I certainly would not want an architect to overuse this design element, but it is pretty cool when you don't see it that often.

[Adam Clayman]

Once again Patrick asks the question which only highlights his limited experience.

The best use of modern day mounding is at Pinon Hills. I attribute their effective use to the re-design of the 8th green at Augusta Nat'l.

The worst example...ever...

[Jeff_Brauer]

Patrick,

Once again a great topic. Timely for me.  I was on a site visit yesterday and am trying to build a more old fashioned course, including a few holes with "chocolate drops" as you discuss.

The shaper was having trouble understanding the concept but then said, "So, you're saying to build it like they built it before they knew what they were doing?"

That's a perfect description of these features built when no one was self conscious about golf architecture.  (Gca fans sent critiques via carrier pigeon, so it took a while for them to become unpopular!)  As time went on, those went the way of a lot of other features that got larger to accomodate bulldozers vs horses, smoother, as we "got to know better" and different.

Our nostalgia now gives these unnatural little features a better looking form.

[PThomas]

I'm sure many consider them "unfair" so heaven help us we can't allow them on courses nowadays....

a great example:  right in front of the green at Prairie Dunes #11 which truly affects the approach shot

[TEPaul]

Paul:

Faux buried field walls??

Does that mean I need to order about a thousand times more seafood bisques and cokes in paper bags to create debris to get covered up? Or is there some other physical etymology to creating faux field walls? How about if I just get in touch with Maryland developers and get them to dump a huge pile of rocks here and there on the site for you to play around with?

[TEPaul]

Dean:

Actually Paul Cowley travels so much he doesn't really know where he's located either. I sure did enjoy that day with you and Forse at Glen Ridge. Willie Park Jr and Herbert Fowler are the two I really want to familiarize myself with next. Actually add to them Herbert Strong. And after that I've got to get to the coast and learn more about Billy Bell. Of course there may be vestiges of the great MAX out there too, or so I'm told.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Different take on debris, the Chambers Bay project in Tacoma is being built in a gravel quarry.  Along one edge of the property was a retention pond.  RT Jones et al screened the surface material resulting in a large pile of sand which subsequently was used to cap the golf course and a VERY large pile of rock.  

One day the pile of rock was gone, the retention area had disappeared and the 8th fairway is now growing.  

Whatever the issues involved in this are I have no idea but they disposed of a very large problem in a very utilitarain manner.

[JSlonis]

Pat,

At Tavistock as well as some of his other courses, Alexander Findlay used mounds in certain areas quite effectively.

During the restoration project, we will be reinstituting Findlay type mounds where they were previously removed.  Jim Nagle will also be adding some mounding to a couple of different areas that he feels would be able to accomodate this feature while also blending with and benefiting the design. Based on the old photos, a typical "Findlay Mound" was irregular in shape and appeared quite gnarly.  Findlay also incorporated mounding as part of his bunker designs.  Many of the outside or back part of the bunker complexes featured mounding of some sort.  

Below are some photos that Jim Nagle had emailed me showing some different examples of the Findlay mounding found at a few of his courses.  I've also included at the end, a couple of examples from Tavistock.




Below- original Findlay mounds at #10 at Tavistock CC

[Mike McGuire]

Did Donald Ross build these mounds?

a par 3 from Kenosha CC in Wisconsin 1922



From the side

[TEPaul]

Adam:

I really do hope those mounds in that photo you posted are piles of debris that've been piled for removal. Please tell me they are.  

They are what some of the old guys used to call haycocks and they don't belong on golf courses---never did---they belong on hay fields that have just been mown with the intention of removing them to barns and feeding the cattle and horses and pigs and other asundry swine.

If some architects are creating that kind of thing today obviously they haven't been reading their architectural histories particularly well.

I'm a big fan of renaissance architecture of various types and styles and forms but one most definitely needs to know where to draw the line on renaissance items.

[BCrosby]

A little OT, but what strikes me about RTJ's bunkering is how much of it was built into mounds that were created soley for the purpose of having their insides hollowed out and filled with sand.

At Boyne Highlands, for example, RTJ's bunkers don't tend to be built into the existing landforms. They are set into little mounds that he purpose-built to host a bunker, as it were.

After six or seven holes I was trying to put my finger on what it was that looked so artificial about the RTJ bunkering schemes. I think that was it.

Bob

[JeffTodd]

Various kinds of mounds are scattered around the Seaveiw Bay course. This one fronts the second green and shuts down the ground game from the left side of the green.

Right side of the 6th fairway, the mounds act as inverted fairway bunkers that force a short iron escape rather than a shot to the green.

Greenside on #18 instead of sand.


Having found myself on those mounds more than a few times, I can attest that they can be more formidable than sand bunkers in many ways. From the varied lies you get (especially in the summer when they are grown in, losing a ball is a possibility), to the various downhill, uphill, and sidehill stances they force, the mounding is one of the more vexing elements of an otherwise easy design.

[Jerry Kluger]

Patrick: I haven't played there for a number of years but doesn't the Lower at Baltusrol have some significant mounding?

[Gary Slatter]

I think Nicklaus used them all up in the late 80's. Too many others copied them. Real mounds are sometimes good features, to me they have to have short grass and be close to play (18th at TPC Sawgrass?). Easier to maintain than bunkers.

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