[Mike_Cirba]

Back about 4 years ago when Merion reconstructed all of their bunkers, I was one of the most vocal critics of the work.   I felt that the look of the well-worn and weathered bunkers was being softened and modernized, and that the steep bluegrass/fescue faces looked tremendously out of place and ungainly.

Several folks at that time said, "give em time, and they'll wear away again".   Seeing that they were constructed with high-tech techniques, they looked pretty impervious to me, and even defenders of the work at the time had to admit they looked pretty "upholstered".   I thought nothing short of full-scale warfare across the property would get them looking beautifully imperfect once again.

But, I was wrong, and I'm very happy to admit it.

First, it seems that most of the bluegrass has died away, and it doesn't seem as though it was perhaps meant to do anything but stabilize the face through a grow-in period.   What's left is mostly fescue, and it's starting to erode beautifully, creating very irregular lines that are creeping the sand up near the tops once again.

Beyond that, it seems that the Superintendent Matt Shaffer and crew are doing a wonderful job in tending to them, with lots of handwork and proper care and feeding.   It seems that they are going for the old look and are succeeding in doing so.  Hat's off to them.

Finally, I'd like to say that all of my comments about the work over the years have come from a deep love and admiration for the course at Merion, which I felt needed to be preserved in a way befitting it's traditions and wonderful heritage and unique aesthetics.   For times when I might have presented my views perhaps too forcefully, I would like to apologize to anyone who might have been offended.  Because, I'm tremendously happy to say today that the course seems to be in very good hands, indeed!  

[Tim Copeland]

McDonald and Sons did the work.....Eric McDonald to be specific......you get all the peach jobs when your last name matches the company name

I worked for them for a bit but didnt get a peach assignment like that one.

I did attend the 2005 Amateur and got mucho pictures.



....and I would still like to play there....

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

You're apologizing?!?

Well, I'll be damned and go to hell. I'm speechless. Who exactly are you apologizing to? I'm cutting and pasting this thread into an email to Bill Greenwood, not that he hasn't already seen it. This may mean you can go back on the propery without worrying about being compacted and dumped out at sea.

Merion's bunkers throughout their history have actually been through three iterations previous to the recent bunker project, and now four;

1. A number of years of generic and plain shapes in the first ten years.
2. The growing in of some pretty cool lacy edges including some capes and bays under the supervision of Flynn and Joe Valentine.
3. The super flashed and high edged ribbons of top surround grass mostly under Richie Valentine.
4. The recent project that eventually morphed from some top-heavy grass upholetered furniture-looking monstrosities into some gnarly, nasty, ball eating natural looking bunkers.

Still today, however, the best of them, in my opinion, are those few on the right of the quarry on #16 that were done in-house.

Merion is getting sort of like the Briish Royalty---they are quite good at redefining themselves from time to time.

The key to the Merion bunkers today is Matt Shaeffer's acetylene torch.  

Maybe you're admitting you're wrong and apologizing, but I'll tell you pal, if you apologize to Fazio too, you better keep looking over your shoulder on here for all time to come. There's nothing like some moderation and peacemaking but don't you dare try to go too damn far.

[Mike_Cirba]

Maybe you're admitting you're wrong and apologizing, but I'll tell you pal, if you apologize to Fazio too, you better keep looking over your shoulder on here for all time to come. There's nothing like some moderation and peacemaking but don't you dare try to go too damn far.

Tom,

I'm apologetic, not crazy!  I think they look really damn good in spite of him!  

[Dan Kelly]

Mike --

If you guys hadn't gotten apoplectic over those bunkers four years ago, Joe Logan wouldn't have written about the spat, and I might never have found golfclubatlas.com.

For better or for worse (for me and/or for golfclubatlas.com), therefore, I'm glad your mea culpa is so tardy!

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been four years since my last Confession ..."

Dan

[PThomas]

very classy Mike

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

I remember the debate very well.

Some of those bunkers did have problems with the facing wall and bunker wol.

Others remain difficult to enter and exit.

I was one of those who indicated that they would wear well, although I didn't think they could maintain the underneath of the wrap around portion inexpensively and without a lot of TLC.

While they've evolved nicely, they still have some inherent flaws.

When is your, " I Was Wrong II" about the redan coming out ?

[TEPaul]

I think it's about time that Pat Mucci apologize too. Only problem is if he did apologize for all that he should apologize for the laundry list of apologies would be so long it would probably wipe out the bandwidth of GOLFCLUBATLAS.com and take the entire website down.

So, Pat, I suggest you just start a thread and admit you're a big duffus and make a blanket apology to all of us.

[Jason Blasberg]

Photographic explainations only please . . .

[Brian Phillips]

Mike,

There are many on here that were wrong including a number of architects that were at the Sand Hills Archipalooza...to quote:

"You going to Merion? They have ruined the place.."

What do you mean?

"Just wait and see, just look at the bunkers and you will know what I mean"

Well, I played it and did not see what was wrong and felt stupid at the time....(wondered if I can be an architect if I cannot see what everybody else seems to be seeing) maybe I am not so stupid after all...

Mr fazio and the construction deserve a lot of credit but Matt and the board deserve much of it as well.  Matt is one of the most interesting guys I have met although he is getting me nervous with his thoughts for the US Open...

The latest Golf Course Architecture magazine has Gary Wolstenholme (not sure of spelling) ripping Merion apart because of the extension of the course.  He in fact uses words like 'ruined the course'. IMHO he doesn't know what he is talking about....but what do I know.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
 How deep were the bunkers? Did they look anything like the bunkers you and I played in 2000? What is the rough around the bunkers consist of? Is it the same as in 2000, or 1981, 1971 or 1930 for that matter?

So how in the FUCK can you say you were wrong or have you sold out?

You would be better changing this entire title to, the new bunkers have evolved nicely even though it's not the same as Hugh Wilson or William Flynn envisioned it...

Better yet Mike, don't be hanging around any Scientologists. I can't bare the thought you can be that easily swayed, waiting for the next flying saucer to arrive from Xenu.

[Mike_Cirba]

Thanks, Tommy.   Great to hear you think I'm a sellout.  

But, I try to be honest here and the truth to me is this.  They seem to be purposefully edging the bunkers higher, the bluegrass has all died away, wear and tear are making for very irregular edges, and although they might not be exactly where we'd like them, they are 85% better than they were after the work, and I was wrong about the fact that they wouldn't wear in a way that makes them look rugged and irregular, as they had before.  

Please come back to Philly and I think you'll find yourself being very pleasantly surprised, as well.

[Mike_Cirba]

Brian,

Which of Matt's ideas for the US Open are getting you nervous?

[JESII]

Mr fazio and the construction deserve a lot of credit but Matt and the board deserve much of it as well.  Matt is one of the most interesting guys I have met although he is getting me nervous with his thoughts for the US Open...

Brian,

Care to expand at all?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
Then your weren't wrong and that the exact title of this thread is in fact WRONG. The bunkers are in fact evolving after careful maintenance to get them back as close as possible to that original point, thus proving that Pat Mucci is right again..... Stop trying to turn faster then Tom Paul in a traffic jam on the New Jersey/Penna Turnpike!

I still think you've been abducted by aliens though, and that they are hiding the real Mike Cirba in a volcano and will not release him for 1 Billion years. Give him back now!

[TEPaul]

TommyN:

What you need to understand better is the bunkers of Merion in 1916 were not much like they were in 1930 and the bunkers of Merion in 1930 were not much like they were in 1971 (US Open) and 1981 (US Open) and 1999. And if you don't believe me just ask Richie Valentine. If anyone on earth would know it would be Richie Valentine.

[John Kavanaugh]

It was the ignorance of the Merion thread that hooked me on this site.  When I saw the picture taken from a car window used as evidence I knew I found a group of guys whose contributions to society could not be hurt by my own cynical ramblings.  I felt as safe as a worm in an acorn waiting for his wings.  Yes Cirba, you owe an apology, to yourself, to me and to everyone I ever offended.

[TEPaul]

TommyN;

The true irony here with the Merion bunkers today is they've evolved over the last few years to look remarkably similar to perhaps some of the old bunkering in the English Heathlands or even Royal County Down today.

This is truly ironic, because as Ron Prichard has very intelligently said, the bunkers of Merion as Wilson and Flynn perhaps envisioned them to ideally be just may have been the very prototype of what was to become the "American" bunker style.

But the question is, where in the hell did Wilson come up with his idea of what those Merion bunkers were supposed to be like and look like?

As far as I know, and Ron Prichard knows, nobody really knows the answer to that.

But there is no question at all that in modern times (perhaps from the 1960s on) the bunker surrounds of Merion became victim to the age of mechanized maintenance and their look changed quite dramatically from the way they once looked.

The irony is they probably look today like what they would have looked like if mechanized maintenance never went anywhere near those surrounds from the way they were around 1930 to today.

If one does not understand this or the reasons why one will just never understand the entire evolution of the bunkers of Merion.

And again, Richie Valentine will be the first to tell you this. If anyone know, he does.

[TEPaul]

John Kavanaugh, you ignorant troglydite, worms do not hang out in acorns waiting for their wings. They hang out in the maternity wards of worm hospitals waiting for their wings.

[Adam Clayman]

O/T
Whats interesting is how TF has used the "puffy" look since.

At Shadow Creek, and now looking at the Pronghorn pictures, the infant puffyness is apparent, to me. Anyone else?

[Mike_Cirba]

Kavanaugh,

Giving me credit for you being on this site I suddenly feel like Harry Truman after Roosevelt died when he stated that the earth, moon, sun, and all of the stars were suddenly sitting heavily on his shoulders.    

Tommy,

I don't think my title is wrong.  I was wrong in my long-term view that the bunkers would not be able to evolve gracefully, pure and simple.   I think you're reading more into it as some self-indictment of those of us who spoke up out of concern for the golf course we admired.  Instead, I'm proud of what we did, even if our rhetoric might have been too inflamed at times.  

If nothing else, we exhibited a passion for classic course preservation that led to a LOT of discussion and I believe a  residual impact at other clubs and courses when they looked at their own situations.   I think all of us learned a heckuva lot over time and that's all for the good.  Hell, we even got Kavanaugh out of his cocoon to provide us here on GCA with his particular brand of insane genius.

My own opinion today has evolved.  I still wish that Gil and Bill had done the work, because I think they would have looked great day one, instead of now just getting there 3-4 years later.   However, what I don't know, simply because I'm not an expert in bunker construction, is whether the infrastructure, drainage, and infestation issues affecting those bunkers would have been adequately addressed without touching the bunker surrounds, as we had all wished.  I simply do not know the answer to whether that would have been possible.    

When all is said and done, I think that is the bottom line.  You need to get out there and see them again Tommy.  The turf is getting nicely battered and ripped away, leaving very cool irregular edging, top lines are on the "rise", and if it's being helped along by Matt and the maintenance staff, then God bless 'em all for recognizing that this is how they should look in the first place.      

[Kyle Harris]

Kavanaugh,

Giving me credit for you being on this site I suddenly feel like Harry Truman after Roosevelt died when he stated that the earth, moon, sun, and all of the stars were suddenly sitting heavily on his shoulders.    

Tommy,

I don't think my title is wrong.  I was wrong in my long-term view that the bunkers would not be able to evolve gracefully, pure and simple.   I think you're reading more into it as some self-indictment of those of us who spoke up out of concern for the golf course we admired.  Instead, I'm proud of what we did, even if our rhetoric might have been too inflamed at times.  

If nothing else, we exhibited a passion for classic course preservation that led to a LOT of discussion and I believe a  residual impact at other clubs and courses when they looked at their own situations.   I think all of us learned a heckuva lot over time and that's all for the good.  Hell, we even got Kavanaugh out of his cocoon to provide us here on GCA with his particular brand of insane genius.

My own opinion today has evolved.  I still wish that Gil and Bill had done the work, because I think they would have looked great day one, instead of now just getting there 3-4 years later.   However, what I don't know, simply because I'm not an expert in bunker construction, is whether the infrastructure, drainage, and infestation issues affecting those bunkers would have been adequately addressed without touching the bunker surrounds, as we had all wished.  I simply do not know the answer to whether that would have been possible.    

When all is said and done, I think that is the bottom line.  You need to get out there and see them again Tommy.  The turf is getting nicely battered and ripped away, leaving very cool irregular edging, top lines are on the "rise", and if it's being helped along by Matt and the maintenance staff, then God bless 'em all for recognizing that this is how they should look in the first place.      

Mike,

I think you may inadvertantly touched on something here that usually ticks me off a bit.

Why was it necessary for the bunkers to be "right" on day one?

What is wrong with building in the evolutionary steps that will take a few years to develop?

[George Pazin]

Kyle -

That's certainly a valid and interesting question - as a start, I suggest you peruse the archives for the battles in question.

One could also ask why there wasn't more effort to get the look right from the start, or whether it was necessary to take the approach they did. Certainly other architects didn't feel it was.

As always, one can never really know what the answer really is, or was.

-----

Anyway, Mike, you can now join me and Huck as two of the only GCAers to ever admit they were wrong about something. I suggest you celebrate by going out and purchasing the Social Distortion album White Light, White Heat, White Trash, which featured I Was Wrong as its first hit single.

 

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle -

That's certainly a valid and interesting question - as a start, I suggest you peruse the archives for the battles in question.

One could also ask why there wasn't more effort to get the look right from the start, or whether it was necessary to take the approach they did. Certainly other architects didn't feel it was.

As always, one can never really know what the answer really is, or was.

-----

Anyway, Mike, you can now join me and Huck as two of the only GCAers to ever admit they were wrong about something. I suggest you celebrate by going out and purchasing the Social Distortion album White Light, White Heat, White Trash, which featured I Was Wrong as its first hit single.

 

George,

Hopefully Mike knows that I'm not attempting to pile on, and I know he has a decent answer that I think needs to be addressed. It's an interesting interplay of time values for a golf course.

[JESII]

I can't speak for the Merion project at all, but my interests would be in the longetivity (or at least expected logetivity) of a product. Some things need to continuously evolve into and out of and back into what is seen as ideal, while others need to be molded into shape and fixed in that shape for as long as possible. No telling which is better, especially in regards to golf courses because so many on here think it is a crime to alter, in any way, a course that built by so-and-so way back in such-and-such.

Which method will create the longest period of satisfactory conditions, the static or the evolving?

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