[Anthony_Nysse]

In the last couple years, I've played several Tom Fazio designs that that Tifdwarf collars. (Belfair, The River Course, Sea Island) I think that the benefits and the allowing for extra runoff because of this is really cool and adds extra thought on approach shots. It can be mowed really tight, you can put from anywhere off the green, able to get spin on your ship shots, but also adds a really good look. Does anyone know of any other courses that use this?

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[S. Huffstutler]

Naples National.

[Gary Slatter]

Good topic Tony, we have to regrass Lucayan CC soon and I like the thought of having more shots possible around the greens.
My question is: will this change the Dick Wilson nature of the course?  44 years after it opened?  I think many courses are designed with a certain grass in mind and often this gets changed (i.e. some of Bob Cupp's chipping areas at Mad River were changed from bent to rye within months of opening).
Most of Wilson's southern courses seem designed to fly the ball onto the green, was this becauase of grass available at the time?
We have never had frost on GBI but we get many days from Dec 15 to Jan 15 below 68 degrees without much sunlight.

[Chris Moore]

My course in New Orleans is blanketed with tifdwarf.  With its push-up greens, it makes for very interesting options.  Very difficult as well, since it produces tight lies that require near-perfect contact.  Most misses end up below green level, which requires a choice of bump-and-run, pitch (the most difficult option given the tight lies), or putt.  

[Anthony_Nysse]

I love the look of the tiftdwarf because it just opens up soooo many options, even if things are supposed to be flown onto the greens. Take Pinehurst #2....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Wyatt Halliday]

Tony,

There is a less than stellar layout north of Houston called Windrose Golf Club. The interesting thing is that the fairway surface is baby Bermuda, and it is without a doubt the firmest/fastest/cleanest surface around the greens anywhere in the state. Granted, the green complexes leave a lot to be desired, but you can putt, bump & check, hybrid, basically whatever you want.

Side note(s):
The initial planting took well (1998) and the course drains incredibly fast. It is traditionally the only course in Houston you can get on after a "frog-strangler"/

[Chris Cupit]

Anthony,

A few days ago I was with Mark Esoda, super at Atlanta Country Club and he and Mark Hoban, my super, and I were looking at our renovation project.  Both Atlanta CC and my course were re-done by Michael Riley and we were all riding around and checking things out.

Anyway, I can't remember if it was Tifdwarf or Tifsport that Atlanta CC used around their greens but Mark Esoda said it was the only thing he would do differently as he has had terrible problems with it the last couple of years.  

Sorry I can't remember exactly which one it was--the grass guys start talking about all kinds of specs and using big words and I don't listen as well as I should!

[Anthony_Nysse]

I played Pine Tree in Boynton Beach, FL yesterday and they had tifeagle greens with tifeagle collars and approaches. It made each and every green play so different and many greens have fall off edges-you really had to be careful with your approach shots! It was also very easy to putt from 25 yards off the greens and they played firm-Loved it!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tony, How does it hold up as we move into winter and the water table rises? I find very few courses drain as well oin December and January.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Most of the courses I know treat their tifdwarf/tifeagle approaches like they do their greens, meaning that when they topdress, verticut and aerify their greens, they do the same for the approaches. This being said, most of the courses that I've played have firm approaches. In fact, Pine Tree had visable sand on there, probably from topdressing a couple days prior. A good layer of sand helps out so much when it comes to maintain firm surfaces. I'd topdress light every week if we could here.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Gary_Mahanay]

Tony,

What do you think the difference in the height of cut was of the greens and approaches?  How far out in front of the greens did they maintain those tifeagle approaches?  I always thought this would be pretty cool but have never seen it done.

Gary

[Tom_Doak]

Anthony:

We used Tifdwarf for the approaches on the Heathland course at The Legends, many years ago, in order to encourage running approach shots.  

However, I think it ultimately backfired, by committing them to extra maintenance they weren't ready to perform, with the result that the approaches became extra thatchy and LESS conducive to the ground game.

Some of the courses in the Melbourne Sand Belt go in prior to tournaments and shave down their approaches to very fast speeds, but it isn't tifdwarf, just the fairway grass of their choice.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tom,
  I understand what you say. If a course does not have the finances to take care of the ultradwarfs, then the reason for their planting is useless. They have to be treated like greens to be effective. In fact, Pine Tree even had tifeagle on their tees, which was awesome.

Gary,
  There is another course in my area that has Tifeagle on their tees and they mow around .150ish. I'd guess that Pine Tree was right around the same on the approaches and tees. Greens were below and 1/8, easily. Most approaches were about 20-25 yds short of the greens with all the par 3 approaches being eagle. It was really cool to play off of and Talbot Denny, their Superintendent was doing a great job of taking care of them. Their growth was upright, they were firm and easy to put off.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Gary_Mahanay]

Tony,

How bad where those tifeagle tees chewed up with divots on the par 3s at Pine Tree?  Always thought that the ultra dwarf bermudas would make great tees.  Probably don't recover quite as fast as 419 or tifsport though?

Gary

[Anthony_Nysse]

Pine Tree has HUGE TEES. most are 50-60 yards long with one even being 151yds long. You don't really have to worry about it!   They are blown and mowed most mornings, so they are clean for play.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

We had that at The Ocean Course for years (until 1997) and ran into problems with resort play.  Many tried to hit flop shots off the tight lies and would spend 10 minutes hitting back and forth over a green.  Finallly, we switched out the grass to 419 that allowed the ball to sit up a little more and rounds to get completed in under six hours!!!

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