BUDA V Destination

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Lloyd, sold, the time of year and bourbon note got me.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Hadn't someone better ask Nick first?  He's off to America with the International MacKenzie Society very shortly.  If he's already gone I could ask David Crabtree, Centenary Captain, with whom I have a meeting next Tuesday.  But at Alwoodley the Captain isn't the boss....

[Bill_McBride]

Mark, I haven't got his email at hand, but Nick told me that he would help with Alwoodley and Ganton both.  Perhaps you could email him to nudge this toward commitment, I'm sure he will be logging in from Santa Barbara.  I don't think he's left Leeds just yet but soon.

Bill

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Thanks Bill.

[Craig Disher]

58 miles from Alwoodley to Ganton - the AA estimates about an hour and 20 minutes. My preference would be to have the event as near Alwoodley as possible and set aside a day to visit Ganton on our own.

I'm waffling here by backing away from Dornoch or Pennard but it's hard to pass up Alwoodley's centenary since I won't be around for the bi-. For anyone traveling from the States through Manchester, we gain a chance to play Beau Desert and/or Delamere again, hopefully in dryer conditions.

[Bill_McBride]

Although it's a neighboring MacKenzie, Nick is not enthusiastic about playing at Moortown.

Perhaps a double round at Alwoodley on day #1 followed by a single round of singles at Ganton on the second day on a late start to accommodate travel, with the crowd then free to disperse, some perhaps to trek north of the Wall!

I suspect Nick's 45-60 minutes to Ganton from Alwoodley starts from far north Leeds where Alwoodley is located, closer I think to Harrogate than to downtown Leeds.  Mapquest says 1 hr 5 minutes from Alwoodley to Ganton.  

There is a charming inn very close to Alwoodley where we stayed before playing there summer 2005, the Harewood Arms, just down the street from Lord Harewood's baronial manse.  If it's of any import, there is a terrific pub in the hotel, and the food is good!  

[Andy Levett]

If you are thinking of Alwoodley I suspect you would be disappointed with Moortown.  It's not intact and there are a number of non-MacKenzie holes, largely forced on it when Moor Allerton sold their Mac course and moved to an RTJ course in the country, and when Sand Moor sold a number of holes for housing.  Ganton is a great course and would not disappoint.  Pannal is a fun course, so, too, is Ilkley, but I should not recommend travelling thousands of miles to play either of those - tack them on if you have a spare day left at the end.  What do others who know the modern Moortown think?

I felt that October was possibly slightly too late in the year to play two competitive rounds a day.  We were lucky with the weather at Hoylake - May or September would give an extra hour or two of daylight.

It's a couple of years since I played them both but my recollection is that Moortown is good, whilst Alwoodley is great.  Ganton is certainly also great and I'm happy to accept the suggestion that it's only a 60 minute drive.

I didn't know that Moor Allerton previously had a Mackenzie course.  That makes their current monstrosity all the more appalling.

I would agree.  Moortown is a good course and I always enjoy playing there but it is not in the same league as either Alwoodley or Ganton.

I like Moortown. Most of it (from memory, about 14 holes) is still MacKenzie, including of course Gibraltar, which has to be seen and played to understand what all the fuss was about.
If I'd crossed the ocean and found myself next door I'd certainly play it. I agree Moortown isn't on quite the same level as Ganton but few courses are, including Alwoodley, good as that is.

[ForkaB]

I'm with Andy, even though I've never played any of the three courses!  If you want to play Ganton, arrange it for yourself (I might even join in). The fact that the powers that be at Alwoodley seem to want to dis Moortown makes the contrarian in me want to play it even more (moor?).  I've learned a lot from repeated plays at an underappreciated MacKenzie course, and Andy's Seaton Carew is something special too.  The "my course is better than your course" syndrome is not unknown in golfdom.......

I'm one of the few (maybe the only one?.... ) who has been at all IV Buda Cups, and what makes them tick is not putting notches on the belt of one's Colt (or MacKenzie) .45 but camaraderie.  I will take any odds that camaraderie will be seriously higher if Moortown is the "2nd" course rather than if it is Ganton, regardless of the architectural merits of the two courses.

I will also second Mark's Rowlinson's admonition about not couting our chickens before they are hatched.  Having been through a Centenary at Aberdour in 1996, I know that both the time and attention span of members is very short in those hectic times.  If and when Nick Leefe confirms that we can have 2 days at Alwoodely somewhere between May and September I'll start to get excited.  Until then, I'll do my best to keep the Dornoch option on the back burner.

Rich

[Craig Disher]

....
I'm one of the few (maybe the only one?.... ) who has been at all IV Buda Cups, and what makes them tick is not putting notches on the belt of one's Colt (or MacKenzie) .45 but camaraderie.  I will take any odds that camaraderie will be seriously higher if Moortown is the "2nd" course rather than if it is Ganton, regardless of the architectural merits of the two courses.
....
Rich

BudaIII involved a fairly long commute - though not as long as that between Ganton and Alwoodley - and the distance didn't work well at all. If Alwoodley/Moortown can be arranged, it sounds like a natural pairing. If Alwoodley doesn't work out, let's keep Pennard on the table as well.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Alwoodley for day one and day 3 singles, and Moortown for day 2 sounds like plan, and the afterparty at Ganton if folk want one. Then we could stay in Leeds the for the whole tourney - we may even have some leverage to get a cheaper rate out of one of the boutique hotels..

[ForkaB]

Craig and Lloyd

Amen.  I think we could do some serious partying/camaraderie in Leeds/Harrogate, but not if we have to spend a day driving back and forth to Ganton.

Now let's get Alwoodley pinned down!

Rich

[ForkaB]

Mark

You are a man after my own heart, as you have grabbed the bullock firmly by the bollocks and created a real possibility.  This is the only way that Buda Cups come to pass.  Of the two, I would vote strongly for option 2, for the reasons I have stated above.

I do think we need to be sensitive to the fact that Nick Leefe has bruited his willingness to organise and support this.  If anybody (Bill McBride, Mark Rowlinson?) can get in touch with Nick, can you and see how this fits his ideas and his schedule?  We could do it on our own, but having a person like Nick involved would be a real plus.

[John Goodman]

A procedural question, from someone who has not been fortunate enough to attend one of these yet:
Has anyone brought a spouse to an event such as this?  If so, has it worked out?  Feel free to tell me that it's a he-man-woman-haters-men-only-thing.  I'm just asking to know what kind of sales job I'll need to attempt . . .

[ForkaB]

John

Women have not yet played in the event, but that does not mean they cannot.  At least one player brought his wife to Buda II (Painswick) and she was warmly welcomed at the club including the (coed) gala dinner.  At Buda III (Littlestone) wives were at the gala dinner too.  Different clubs have different policies.  Dornoch is a fully coed club.  I'm not sure about Alwoodley (assuming it is chosen as the venue).

[John_Cullum]

For what it is worth, Moortown is a very nice club with accomodating staff and friendly members, and they have a great bar.

It is a very good course as well.

[Bill_McBride]

Alwoodley is definitely a coed venue based on my personal experience of a mixed foursome and lunch on the terrace afterward with Mr. and Mrs. Leefe.   The new clubhouse is beautiful, there's a photo of #17 tee with clubhouse behind in Ran's profile.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/alwoodley000265.html

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I'm meeting with the Alwoodley Centenary Captain on Tuesday and will pass on the information on these posts.  I'm happy that others would want to play Moortown, and it could not be more convenient - a few hundred yards down the road.  Let's leave Ganton as a most deserving of other venues that visitors to these shores should play even if it is not part of the next Buda Cup.  It is to British golf courses something similar to Merion, the best of those courses not to host a recent Major - except that Merion is now back on the schedul and Ganton never will be.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm meeting with the Alwoodley Centenary Captain on Tuesday and will pass on the information on these posts.  I'm happy that others would want to play Moortown, and it could not be more convenient - a few hundred yards down the road.  Let's leave Ganton as a most deserving of other venues that visitors to these shores should play even if it is not part of the next Buda Cup.  It is to British golf courses something similar to Merion, the best of those courses not to host a recent Major - except that Merion is now back on the schedul and Ganton never will be.

But Ganton was a very deserving and popular venue for a recent Walker Cup.  It's interesting how some courses that could never hold a professional major are really good for the Walker Cup or Curtis Cup -- Chicago Golf Club, Ganton, Pacific Dunes......

Alwoodley and Moortown should prove to be an excellent venue for that other important international amateur match play event, the Buda Cup!  

[Philip Gawith]

I have been away and not had time to read all the posts, but my initial instinct was towards Yorkshire, so very happy to go with the flow. I would definitely be one to join the after-party at Ganton, and maybe Andy would tempt us along to Seaton Carew as well.

I agree with Lloyd we were lucky with the timing and that earlier than October is better - there were some special considerations this year that pushed us back.

[Mark Pearce]

September sounds better than June but I don't have a really strong preference so long as we avoid school holidays.

I'd be happy to play Moortown but am not as bothered as some seem to be by the drive to Ganton and will, almost certainly, join in any Ganton sideshow.  There is no doubt that Ganton is a superior course to Moortown.  I'm also likely to take part in any trip to Seaton Carew, not least as it's on my way home.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I like June as well. The better the weather as they say the better fun for all. John, I would think bringing your spouse would be fine. Wendy enjoyed the treehouse last year a great deal. Of course I have gotten my walking papers, so it will likely be a new name next summer. However, I for one would make London and/or somewhere else a major part of the trip. The area around Leeds, Manchester, York etc while pretty is somewhat industrialized and has more nuclear power plants per square mile than anywhere on earth I have ever seen.

[Bill_McBride]

Tiger, there is nary a nuke plant visible from Alwoodley!  

I would suggest avoiding September as the Walker Cup is in Northern Ireland in the middle of that month, could be some who plan to attend that event.

[Craig Disher]

Bill,
With the Walker Cup falling in mid-Sept it might make sense to schedule BudaV just before or after for those who plan on attending.

I'm in the September camp. Travel is less crowded from the States and the weather in the UK is reasonably stable, especially early in the month. June can be all over the map.

[Tony_Muldoon]

My criteria would be to have at least two buffer weeks either side of summer holidays.  i.e. by mid June or 3 weeks into September.

[Mark Pearce]

I like June as well. The better the weather as they say the better fun for all. John, I would think bringing your spouse would be fine. Wendy enjoyed the treehouse last year a great deal. Of course I have gotten my walking papers, so it will likely be a new name next summer. However, I for one would make London and/or somewhere else a major part of the trip. The area around Leeds, Manchester, York etc while pretty is somewhat industrialized and has more nuclear power plants per square mile than anywhere on earth I have ever seen.

?  Nuclear power plants?  Are you sure?