[Patrick_Mucci]

With the thread on the "Double Plateau" and my thread about substantive internal contouring, I got to thinking:

When a green has a tier or tiers with distinct levels created by abrupt slopes, at what differentiation in elevation does a golfer get uncomfortable ?

At what height differential does his feel for distance break down ?

I realize that the answer to the question might be handicap related, but, in general, where do you think the break point is ?

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

I noticed in the Dunhill Links tournament last year, that the combination of two-foot tiers on some greens, plus the wind, made putting and chipping at Kingsbarns really difficult.  The professionals in our group were never comfortable with the pace on those kinds of putts, and were really frustrated by the end of the round.

I think it really bothered my partner that I was getting the speed right!

[Dan Smoot]

This topic reminds me of No. 5 at Bandon Trails.  Not a difficult green to hit due to distance but where you place your shot is critical.  The day I played there the pin was located center, just on the upper plateau.  I watched everyone out of their comfort zone, from those below to those beyond the pin.  You could see the strain on everyone just trying to get it close.  One person below the pin, barely missed hitting an excellent putt and the ball ended up 15 behind him.  From the back of the green, the pin position was just scary.  That person ended up at the front of the green.

I play on a course that has at least a 4 foot elevation change on the right side of the green and it moderately slopes back right to back left.  Since the green slopes off to the back right edge of the green, there is no room for error even with a wedge.  Most people hitting 7 or 8 iron cannot hold the green in this area.   The best alternative to getting a decent putt is to play to the back left center of the green and settle for a 25 foot moderately uphill putt.  Only a skilled player with precise control can come in low and release it up the slope.  For my game, following a great drive and a wedge in my hand, I don't feel confident of getting it reasonably close or even holding the green.  

Both of these holes are interesting to watch how people play it.    It would be interesting to know what the average score is on both of these holes when the pins are located there.  I think most are playing for bogey.

[Kirk Gill]

Putting uphill the differentiation might have to be several feet to really get me uncomfortable. But a downhill differentiation of one foot might get me shaking on a fast green......

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

One of the things that fascinate me about green contours is the steepness of the transition zone from one tier to another.

A perfect example of this can be found on the 11th hole at NGLA.

The left side tier is steeply sloped.
The rear tier isn't as high, but still has a quick transition.

I've noticed, on other greens, that the transition zone isn't nearly as abrupt.

In your response you indicated that two (2) feet makes golfers uncomfortable.

Relating that two feet to the transition zone, how do you feel that a steep transition zone further removes the golfer from their comfort zone ?

And, aren't most golfers more uncomfortable when putting or chipping from a higher tier to a lower tier ?

So wouldn't sharp or abrupt transition zones, irrespective of the height differential, make the golfer very uncomfortable ?

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