[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

In the end, you should just hope that the god you answer to after life isn't a rules nut.  

 
Oh wow, that's the most audible yuks I have had in a LONG time here.  Maybe most ever.  I am still dying....

 

[Dan_Callahan]

Every now and then, a player upholds the spirit of the rules and of good sportsmanship. This from last week's AmEx:

Furyk got within five shots through five holes and was at 15 under when his approach to the sixth buried in lush grass on the side of a hill. The entire group searched for the ball, and it was located only because Ian Poulter inadvertently stepped on it. By rule, Furyk had to drop the ball in the same spot without penalty because of the outside interference.

Furyk then told rules official Mike Shea he was taking a one-stroke penalty for an unplayable lie because he would not have been able to play it had the group found the ball without Poulter stepping on it. He went back to the fairway and got up-and-down for bogey.

"I just felt like it was definitely taking advantage of the situation," Furyk said. "Ian did me a favor by finding the ball. Stepping on it probably was the only way we were going to get it. All that went through my mind, and I felt like I did the right thing."

[JESII]

Thumbs up.

[John_Cullum]

The entire group searched for the ball, and it was located only because Ian Poulter inadvertently stepped on it. By rule, Furyk had to drop the ball in the same spot without penalty because of the outside interference.

Actually the rule required that he replace the ball. You only drop the ball if you can't determine the spot on which to replace it, and you have to drop it as near as possible to where it was. I dont know why it couldn't have been replaced, it couldn't have moved more than an inch or two, and its a matter of degree, a ball never gets replaced in the exact spot it was moved from.

It looked to me like the grass was 8 or 10 inches deep, so unless it somehow miraculously sat up after his drop, he was going to wind up unplayable anyway.

[JohnV]

The entire group searched for the ball, and it was located only because Ian Poulter inadvertently stepped on it. By rule, Furyk had to drop the ball in the same spot without penalty because of the outside interference.

Actually the rule required that he replace the ball. You only drop the ball if you can't determine the spot on which to replace it, and you have to drop it as near as possible to where it was. I dont know why it couldn't have been replaced, it couldn't have moved more than an inch or two, and its a matter of degree, a ball never gets replaced in the exact spot it was moved from.

It looked to me like the grass was 8 or 10 inches deep, so unless it somehow miraculously sat up after his drop, he was going to wind up unplayable anyway.

John, if the original lie of the ball was altered and/or the ball was moved and either the original lie or the position wasn't known, the ball must be dropped.  Since the ball was lieing under grass and the lie and position weren't known exactly, the ball should be dropped.  If the ball was embedded after Poulter stepped on it, they'd have to drop it.

Also, I don't put a lot of credence in press reports that state that Poulter "stepped on the ball" meaning that he just stepped on and and pushed it down a little vs kicking it and moving it a few inches.  Even the players might not have known which it was, let alone a writer trying to explain the rules.

20-3b/5 Lie of Ball to Be Replaced Altered and Spot Where Ball Originally Lay Not Determinable

Q. An outside agency accidentally steps on A’s ball in tall grass through the green and presses the ball into the ground. The original lie of A’s ball has been altered, and it is impossible to determine the spot where A’s ball originally lay. Should A proceed under Rule 20-3b or Rule 20-3c?

A. If either the original lie or the spot where the ball lay is not known, Rule 20-3c overrides Rule 20-3b. The player must drop the ball as near as possible to where it lay but not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
If both the original lie and the spot where the ball lay are known, Rule 20-3b overrides Rule 20-3c. The ball must be placed in the nearest lie most similar to the original lie that is not more than one club-length from the original lie, not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. (Revised)

[John_Cullum]

John

I agree with all that, but I see no evidence the lie of the ball was altered, and I believe it's original spot could have been determined accurately enough. The ball did not move several feet, only a few inches.

Go step on a ball in tall grass. You can pretty well determine where it originally was, if it moves at all.

Altering the lie happens when a truck drives over it. Not when some grass is slightly bent during a search. I never read it was pressed into the ground.

[JESII]

So is JJ Henry to be commended for his move while Jim Furyk is being criticized for avoiding what he saw as an unfair advantage being offered on a silver platter? Amazing.

[JohnV]

John,

Having not seen the incident, I can only say that if they couldn't see the ball and they couldn't see the lie, there is no way of knowing who much the lie was altered and how far the ball was moved.  Therefore, the ball must be dropped.  It doesn't matter how far it moved or how little the lie was altered.  It was moved and the lie was changed and nobody knows where it was originally or exactly what the lie was like.

[John_Cullum]

We just have to agree to disagree. My way is closest to the underlying principal of playing the ball as it lay, and is therefor the most equitable way to resolve the matter.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()