So what's the deal with Erin Hills?

[Jeff Goldman]

We've heard about a lot of folks going over to Erin Hills in the last few weeks.   More than a few have said they'd post after they played, but we've heard zip.  What's the deal?  I've played it too, but will wait to hear what others think.

Jeff Goldman

[Dan Moore]

I cancelled my tee time in August for a variety of  reasons including the reports as to less than decent playing conditions.  Recent reports indicate conditions are improving and recent cooler temps and abundant rain should help more.  I still hope to go later this season.  

[Ryan Heiman]

I played it 10 days ago.

I thought the grees and tees were excellent.

Of the 14 fairways on the par 4s and 5s there was 1 that was in rough shape and 3 that had some mud spots around the greens and a couple of other patches that didn't grow in well, but most of those  only came into play if you missed the green short.  The one that really bothered me was on hole 13(I think) it's a par 5 that is on the shorter side.  I went for it in 2, but my ball did not bounce up onto the green because there was some mud right infront of it.  Other than that, I was really impressed because everyone seemed to be complaining about the conditions.  It is no Augusta, but it will be and already is a great course.

[Jim Colton]

I was just wondering the same thing.  I cancelled tee times for the past Saturday because a) the condition issues and b) I played Meadow Valleys/Irish up in Kohler on a  2-for-1 deal.  I'll probably wait on EH until next season, but I'm dying to hear some feedback and see some pictures to see if it can possibly live up to the hype.

[Evan Fleisher]

I should be heading over in the next month to play...will chime in once I get an 18 under my belt.

[ed_getka]

Jeff,
   I guess you'll have to answer your own question. I thought you had insightful things to say about the course a few weeks ago when we talked about it. I think it is time to share your thoughts with the broader community.

Ryan,
   What features of the course make it great in your opinion? What were some of the drawbacks from your viewpoint?

[Paul Richards]

i'm looking forward to playing it in September and am very curious, as well, Jeff, as to what GCA'ers who have played it thought about it

i've heard amazingly disparate viewpoints from people i respect, so i will reserve judgement.  but it is amazing how the group of five that i know have played it, view the course.....

[Ryan Heiman]

Ryan,
   What features of the course make it great in your opinion? What were some of the drawbacks from your viewpoint?

The natural setting was awesome.  The sheer beauty of the course was great.  The variety of up/down around and layout was fun.  The pure feeling of golf. There was just enough sand to catch a wayward shot, but not so much that it was impossible to find the fairway. The greens were of such variety that they didn't seem too plain or too impossible.  It was basically a links course with a few trees natural to the land.  Again it is not your common WI course.  I would say it is not even a common course for the US. I guess being 45 minutes from where I grew up didn't hurt either.  I played with a guy from detroit that has traveled the country and played almost every great course I could think of, and he thought Erin Hills was outstanding.

The only drawback is how the blue tees play.  the par 3's and 5's were just fine.  But the 4's didn't have the right set-up for the blues.  They were either less than 350 or more than 450.  It was either driver wedge or driver long iron or utility.  nothing played in the 400-425 range from the blues. for a driver and mid iron  The black tees looked to correct that problem.  The green tees weren't too bad, but then there were a couple of really short par 4s.

It is not a cheap public course, but I am so happy that it is public.  The plan was to keep it cheaper than it is, but the owner bought up all this extra land around the course to keep it free from development.  I think that was a wise decision.

It will be exciting to see if they get a US Open, which from what I can gather they probably will.  It can play way long, It also will probably have the ability to play really hard with the type of fairways, the layout and the ablity to narrow the fairways and speed up the greens.

[ed_getka]

Ryan,
  Thanks for the feedback. Links? I have not had that impression from what some who have played there have told me.
   How about the movement of the land up and down? How do the holes lay out over the land? What sort of stances did you have? Many blind shots?

[Steve Lapper]

I'll wait for Matty "I've just gotta be me" Ward to give me his review!!

[bakerg]

Ed- to jump in about blind shots.  A large majority of the tee shots are blind if memory serves me.  A lot of the holes I couldn't tell which way the green was going to be until I got I to the fairway.  We just played our tee shots to what we thought was the middle of the fairway and took our punishment from there if we were heading in the wrong direction.  

I already posted some thoughts on another thread about Erin Hills.  I think it is an incredible piece of land with and incredibly average golf course on it.  It is truly ashame Doak didn't get to do this course.  I believe he had either interviewed for it or at one point did a routing.  I can't remember the back story.  I have a very strong sense he would have created something that would have challenged his home course.

This property could have produced a World Top 25 in my opinion.  I just don't think they got all out of the land that they could have.  

[Ryan Heiman]

Ryan,
  Thanks for the feedback. Links? I have not had that impression from what some who have played there have told me.
   How about the movement of the land up and down? How do the holes lay out over the land? What sort of stances did you have? Many blind shots?

It is not true links, but more of your rolling terrain.  Not park land or woodsy at all.  I don't know what to call it.  They are hoping to have it play fast and furious, they are not there yet.   It was alot more elevation change than I expected.  I generally had good stances but many time even down the middle it was uphill, downhill or side hill lie.  Yes there are many blind shot.  The one thing I didn't like was that hole 1 and 2 both have blind shots.  The starter said that they are playing the slowest.  I could see why.  2 you have to shoot over this big hill to get to the fairway.  But you can shoot through the fairway if you are a little of because of the slight dogleg.  I would guess there are many lost ball on that hole.  I would guess that play will be slow on this course, because of the many first time players and the blind shots.

If you use the yardage books(which I hope they do them up different, they were on 8 1/2 X 11 paper. Useless if you are walking) it was very easy to figure out where to go and how to play.  I get a yardage book at every course when I play for the first time, because looks can be deceiving.

I think it is hard to call this course average, but I am sure there is alway a better design with any piece of land in someones opinion even the great courses.

[bakerg]

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't call it average.  It just could have been so much more in my opinion.  I just didn't want to use the word "good" because that word has too broad of a meaning.  

[ed_getka]

Ryan and bakerg,
   Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind, pick out a couple of greens that are really cool and tell us why? pick out a couple that are not so great and tell what doesn't work with them. Thanks.

[Ryan Heiman]

Ryan and bakerg,
   Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind, pick out a couple of greens that are really cool and tell us why? pick out a couple that are not so great and tell what doesn't work with them. Thanks.

My favorite greens were 15, 10, 7
15 was just awesome visually.  It looks like the perfect shot is dead center of the green, but there is a huge  ridge there and will kick your ball the wrong way.  
10 was just huge, I like it playing up to 3 clubs different depending on hole location.
7 the green was kind of normal but the location in the valley was cool.
Ones I didn't care for 2,14, 9,
2 long and narrow crown I didn't care for
14, if speed is up it might be hard to keep it on the green or for that matter on the top of the hill.
9, see hole 14.

I guess the par three greens were not as fun or exciting as would be expected.  I did like the "dell" hole.

My memory may not be perfect on all of these holes, but the greens were fun and fair I felt, but I could see the USGA getting them to fast and out of control if they wanted.

[tlavin]

My friend Jeff Rude from Golfweek played it about a month ago and says that it is world-class.  His initial take is that it belongs in the company of Sand Hills and Pacific Dunes.

[Jim Nugent]

Jeff, you said you would give us your opinion...

[ed_getka]

Links magazine obviously is enamored with the place. I have never seen a more extensive write-up and photos of one course. It certainly looks interesting from what I saw in the article.
   For those that have seen it, do you think the negatives that some have pointed out can be corrected?

[Brendan Dolan]

I have worked on the course for the past two years.  As many have said the land is quite breathtaking.  One of my favorite aspects of the course is the difference in types of green contourings and surrounds.  The greens range in size  from huge to tiny, and have some extremely bold contouring while others have very subtle contours.  Please feel free to ask any questions, about holes or construction details.  I will try to get to them as soon as possible.
Brendan  

[Dan Moore]

Brendan,

The initial reports on the conditioning when the course opened were not great.  How is the conditioning now that the heat of summer has subsided.  Also, you posted some really nice construction photos last winter, if you have any showing the course since it opened I'm sure they would be appreciated.  Thanks.  

[Michael Dugger]

I thought the article in the latest Links Magazine was very well done.

The course looks phenomenal.

I'd love to play it.

[Brendan Dolan]

The conditioning has improved quite a bit.  Like most have said the tees and greens are in really fine shape for such a new course.  Just before I left to come back to school, we verticut and top dressed the greens.  I played a couple days after, and the greens were putting beautifully.  The fairways and some of the approaches have some small problem areas that Jeff Rottier and the rest of the crew are taking care of.  The fairways are being cut at one inch right now, but will eventually be cut at only a half an inch.  I think many of the pictures that have been posted on this site were before we did much fertilizing.  The course is now quite a bit greener, yet is still playing pretty fast.

For those of you who have played the course, I would love to hear what you liked and did not like?

Ryan,
I am surprised that you did not like the 2nd hole; I feel that it is honestly one of the most unique short par fours that I have seen.  Dirt was only moved to create the bunkers on that hole.  How did you play it?
Why did you find the par three greens boring?

Bakerg, could you please elaborate on why you think the course is so average?  I’ve played several of the top courses in Ireland, and feel that the greens and natural beuaty are similar.  
I’ll try to post some pictures as soon as possible, but might be a while as my laptop is in for repairs.
Brendan  

[ed_getka]

Brendan,
  Thanks for offering to answer questions. I don't have a lot of time now, but am curious if you know anything about the green fee decision process? $150 seems pretty steep for an unproven course in that neck of the woods. I could see $150 out here in the Bay Area of California, as everything is ridiculously expensive. I am wondering why Erin Hills didn't go the route of Bandon Dunes which was quite reasonable in the beginning and developed a strong reputation before the rates began to seriously go up.
   If Erin Hills were at $75 I would be there next week when I am in the area, but at $150 and hearing about some issues of conditioning and many blind shots I am going to need to hear more positive feedback here on GCA before I head over.
    What are some drawbacks of the course in your opinion? What is your take on the blindness people are talking about? I can't remember exactly what holes and shots I have heard about since I haven't been there yet.

[Ryan Heiman]

Ryan,
I am surprised that you did not like the 2nd hole; I feel that it is honestly one of the most unique short par fours that I have seen.  Dirt was only moved to create the bunkers on that hole.  How did you play it?
Why did you find the par three greens boring?

I was just talking about the green on #2.  The hole was fun, just the green for some reason didn't sit well with me.  But I only played the course once. I played it straight over the hill, basically right at the pin.  I hit the green but ran off the back, then hit a really good chip that ran off the front.  I felt like I hit good shots on that hole that just seemed to turn out poorly.  That may be why I didn't care for that grenn.

I was not saying the par 3's are boring, just the greens were a little plain for par 3's  The holes were cool, I just thought there could have been a little more done with those greens.  I will admit that 6 and 7 were cool.  Others were good, I was just hoping for a little more.  Bye hole was closed so I am not sure how that one played.  I have seen some great par threes with odd shapes or interesting bumps, some of the par threes were missing this aspect.

Like I said before,  overall, I love the course, and can't wait to play it more.  It is 2nd best in WI. Which to me is really great.

[Mike_Young]

I played the course with one of the architects last tuesday......the course has tremendous potential and yes it does need a little more time to grow in, but he admitted that....one just needs to look past it....I enjoyed it very much...