[Brad Tufts]

Is someone willing to post or link me to it?

[David_Tepper]

Brad -

This is a link to Golf World's Top 100 GB&I list, posted June 8, 2006:

www.golfmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/4676/v/3/sp/

DT  

[Brad Tufts]

Thanks David!  

What I'm actually more interested in is the second 100, but they seem to be guarding that relatively closely....

[Wayne_Kozun]

I don't know if this is discussed before - but Royal Dornoch at 14 behind Loch Lomond and Wentworth West???

[David_Tepper]

Wayne -

The only explanation I can think of for why Royal Dornoch has fallen out of the top 10 in the GB&I rankings the past couple of times around is that it is so far away and so few of the panelists get up there to see & play it on a regular basis. It is the old "out of site, out of mind" phenomenon at work.

DT

[Gene Greco]

     One evening Tom Huckaby and I, over several glasses of whisky, came up with 18 courses which could be called the best in the world and we both included Turnberry among them.

However, I have heard of talk on this site which poo-poos Turnberry and I don't remember the reasons which were given. Could someone enlighten me (us) as to the faults which might exist?

[Wayne_Kozun]

The only explanation I can think of for why Royal Dornoch has fallen out of the top 10 in the GB&I rankings the past couple of times around is that it is so far away and so few of the panelists get up there to see & play it on a regular basis. It is the old "out of site, out of mind" phenomenon at work.

We also get that here in Canada with Highland Links dropping down in the rankings, but you could make the same argument for Sand Hills.  How many of the rankers get out to Nebraska on a regular basis?  And it is much harder to get to than Royal Dornoch.  You can fly directly from London (or Edinburgh or Glasgow) directly to Inverness.  I bet you could be on the first tee at Royal Dornoch less than three hours from the time you board a plane at Heathrow - how many hours would it take you to get from Laguardia to Sand Hills without a private jet?

[Adam Clayman]

   Could someone enlighten me (us) as to the faults which might exist?

Doug's post #17 seems to make a reasoned argument.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=21762;start=msg395737#msg395737

[David_Tepper]

Wayne -

I fly from San Francisco to London Heathrow to Inverness twice a year, so I know (all too well!) how long it takes to get there.

I think Sand Hills may be benefiting from the buzz it generated as a new (and new type of) course. Royal Dornoch got a lot of buzz for a decade or more after is was "re-discovered" by H.W. Wind, but now it has receded into the background a bit as it does not host any major golf events and a number of newer (and flashier) courses have been built in GB&I.

It will be interesting to see how well Sand Hills holds up in the rankings over the next 10-20 years. As more courses get built in the sandbelt region (Dismal River, Ballyneal, the Prairie Club, etc.), Sand Hills will inevitably lose some of its uniqueness and it may recede into the background of raters minds just a bit.

All the above being said, it was very nice to see Brora, even more remote than Royal Dornoch, creep into the Top 100.

DT  

[Wayne_Kozun]

I fly from San Francisco to London Heathrow to Inverness twice a year, so I know (all too well!) how long it takes to get there.
...
All the above being said, it was very nice to see Brora, even more remote than Royal Dornoch, creep into the Top 100.

But presumably the panelists for this list were all from the UK.  I agree re:  Brora but if you are in Dornoch then what is another 20 miles to Brora.

I bet that I could get to Royal Dornoch from my home in Toronto faster than I could get to Sand Hills or Bandon.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Hey, The Addington made it!!!

Re: Turnberry, Ian Andrew thought the routing was not all it could have been:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=23773;start=msg437654#msg437654

Mark

[Brian_Ewen]

101-Prince's Shore and Dunes
102-Saunton West
103-Rosapenna Sandy Hills
104-Queenwood
105-Crowborough Beacon
106-Machynys
107-The Roxburghe
108-Woburn Duchess
109-Royal North Devon
110-Archerfield Direlton
111-Portstewart The Strand
112-Plamerstown House
113-The Players Golf Club
114-Druid's Heath
115-Enniscrone
116-St.Andrews Duke's
117-Boat of Garten
118-The Buckinghamshire
119-Turnberry Kintyre
120-Southport & Ainsdale
121-Bearwood Lakes
122-Connemara
123-Glasgow Gailes
124-Moortown
125-Fota Island
126-The Heritage
127-East Sussex National West
128-Dooks
129-Parkstone
130-Killarney Killeen
131-Skibo Castle
132-Woodbridge
133-Luffness New
134-Trevose
135-Montrose
136-Killarney Mahony's Point
137-Royal Worlington
138-Ashburnham
139-Hnabury Manor
140-La Moye
141-New Zealand
142-Dundonald
143-Luffenham Heath
144-West. Lancs.
145-Bracket Hall Palmerston
146-Stoke Park
147-Dunbar
148-The Oxfordshire
149-Panmure
150-The London Club The Heritage
151-Isle of Purbeck
152-Royal Dublin
153-Carton House O'Meara
154-St.Andrews Bay Devlin
155-Faithaven
156-Fraserburgh
157-Seacroft
158-Celtic Manor Wentworth Hills
159-Delamere Forest
160-The K Club Smurfit
161-The London Club The International
162-Forest Pines
163-St.Pierre
164-Ring of Kerry
165-Shiskine
166-Ceann Sibeal
167-Parkstone
168-Scotscraig
169-Forest of Arden
170-Ipswich Purdis Heath
171-Royal Jersey
172-Murcar
173-Lundin Links
174-Carden Park Nicklaus
175-Felixstowe Ferry
176-Hayling
177-Portmarnock Hotel & Links
178-Kilmarnock Barassie
179-Hesketh
180-Sheringham
181-Cruit Island
182-Crail Balcomie Links
183-Ballybunion Cashen
184-Archerfield Fidra
185-Seaton Carew
186-Slaley Hall
187-St.Mellion Nicklaus
188-Bamburgh Castle
189-Berkhamsted
190-Leven
191-East Devon
192-Littlestone
193-East Sussex National East
194-King's Lynn
195-Liphook
196-Ladybank
197-Southerdown
198-Perranporth
199-Fulford
200-Pyle & Kenfig

[Tom Huckaby]

For one, muchas gracias Gene for bringing back a very fond memory...

And I can SORT of buy that reasoning re Turnberry, but not completely.  I still think it belongs in our conversation - but then again, things like history and scenic beauty likely matter more to me than to others.   So when one says the 77 Duel in the Sun is worth about 40 places in the rankings, I'd say sure, why shouldn't it be so?

Interesting list in any case - as good, or bad, as any of our US magazines.

TH

[Kirk Gill]

Having only played numbers 3 and 166 on the list, I am pretty lame. That said, I'm not dead yet !

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I know I've said this before, but some years ago Ashridge made the top 100.  One year it dropped out.  The secretary asked the editor of Golf World which of the panellists had been to Ashridge to examine it since the previous list.  None had (it was a much smaller panel in those days).  Now, it seems, it doesn't make the top 200, but I'm sure we could all make cases for at least 50 of those in places 101 to 200 to be replaced by courses we think are better.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

An interesting jump in the top 200 are the 2 new courses at the Archerfield 36-Hole complex. I visited the site during construction and met DJ Russel,  the course designer, who understandably was very excited about how the course was coming along. He had designed them to be played as links courses with very few bunkers and lots of subtle movements. I haven't seen or played the finished courses yet though.

[Phil McDade]

Well, I'm the king of quirk when it comes to golf courses, and having played Shiskine, it's hard to argue against such a fun course finding a place in the top 200. But it's not a better course than Crail's Balcomie links. Both have great seaside views, both have their share of quirky and funky holes, but Calcomie really does have several first-class links holes. And there's a third less of Shiskine!

[Tony_Muldoon]

And there's no room for Pennard anywhere on the list

[Tom_Doak]

Gene:

I think Turnberry is just a bit too flat to be considered among the very best courses in the world.  

... Really!  There are several great holes but a few forgettable ones, and to me it falters because those holes don't have enough bumpy links features to overcome that objection.  [In other words, if the holes in question had a lot of uneven lies and stances and the approaches were a bit more well defended, I'd forgive their sameness.]

Now, it has been a long time since I played there, 23 years to be precise.  And that was on the tail end of an entire year traveling around the best courses in the UK and Ireland.  I'm sure I would be more impressed if I went back tomorrow, and forgive me if I've forgotten a bit of it.

[Noel Freeman]

I have always thought highly of the Golf World UK list but Turnberry as No. 1 ranks right up there with Pebble usurping the top spot a few years back on the Golf List.

Then again Herbert Warren Wind thought Turnberry was the equal of Muirfield..  Turnberry is a great links in a wonderful setting with some standout holes.  I wonder how great is was before the RAF got in there.. That said the course didnt really start til #4 for me and was a great ride til #10... After that, I have to admit its memorable component has waned for me a great deal.  There are a few good holes (#15) coming in but I once discussed with Ran about this and Turnberry as a links experience can be surmounted by other courses.. The course obviously is not as natural as it could be given what was done to it in WW II..

In my view... The following I would jump on a plane and go to before Turnberry..

Ballybunion
Royal Cinque Ports
Royal St. Georges
St. Enodoc
Lahinch
Royal County Down
Dornoch
TOC
Rye

To me, those are all superior links.. Obviously only a few would/do hold an Open..

I'd have to regrettably disagree with my friends Dr. Greco and Tom Huck on it being one of the top 18 capable of being #1.. I did a similar thing with Paul Turner on a long car ride to Bournemouth and we did not come up with Turnberry..  Then again, Harry Colt was never there!

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