[Jordan Wall]

In a GD article it showed the many, many changes the 17th hole at Medinah has had over the past few years.
The green and tee boxes were in four different locations each time from what it seemed.

What other holes, on some nicer courses, are or have been frequently changed?
How many of these holes have been changed due to pro tournaments being held?
And, when did #17 at Medinah play the best, or when was it the best hole after a new renovation or even before any renovation was done?
(Maybe Shivas can help on that last question..)

[Kyle Harris]

Jordan,

Augusta National is probably going to end up being the poster child for your questions as every hole there has been nipped or tucked in some form or the other.

This question is a lot like asking Genesis fans which "era" of the band they prefer. Most will prefer the era to which they were exposed when they first saw music as something other than background noise.

I differ in that regard (my favorite era is from 1975-1983, but I was exposed to the 1986-1991 era first) but I think you'll find, especially with a course like Medinah, that preference is essentially going to fall with the configuration of the 17th when the course was first viewed. For me, that was the 1999 PGA and I saw nothing wrong with the 17th at the time.

[Tom_Doak]

Jordan:

That hole might have been best in the mid-1970's, when it wasn't there at all.

Medinah No. 3 always had two par-3's playing straight across the lake -- the second hole, with the green right down to the water's edge, and what is now the 13th, a long par-3 with the green set back up the hill a ways, which was then no. 17.

When the USGA told the club they HAD to build a new 18th hole if they ever wanted to host the US Open again, the entire back nine was re-routed, and the new 17th added, so that there were three par-3's over the lake.  And they've been tinkering with it ever since.

To me, the only way they could have made the par-3 and given it more variety would have been to make it play on a diagonal over the water.  Going straight across, no matter what they did, it was going to be too similar to one of the other two holes.

[Glenn Spencer]

Tom Doak or whoever can answer,

What was the problem with the 18th?

[Jordan Wall]

Tom,

If I am not mistaken wasnt there a ton of tree removal at Medinah?  I thought I remembered reading that but I heard the course used to have way too many trees..


Kyle,

Are there any particular holes you can think of whiuch have undergone massive, continuous change?


I agree AN has had a lot of change, but I think in a different way then Medinah, or at least the 17th hole.  The green has been moved four times, as have the tees, which have created four different par threes.  The only way I can see that kind of change happening to Augusta is if (and I hope this does not happen) the 12th hole gets changed, either by lengthening the hole or doing something else stupid that would ruin it.  
I do not know for sure, but the changes continually made to #17 at Medinah, seem to maybe have helped the hole..?  

[George Pazin]

If I am not mistaken wasnt there a ton of tree removal at Medinah?  I thought I remembered reading that but I heard the course used to have way too many trees.

Not Tom, obviously, but I don't recall ever reading about significant tree removal at Medinah. It is literally a course carved from the trees. Most of the courses that are undergoing or underwent big tree removal programs were at one point mostly devoid of trees, unlike Medinah.

I think.

[George Pazin]

Jordan, someone just emailed me and noted that a GD article from October 2002 on Medinah said that they had removed over 200 trees for playability and agronomic reasons, and that another 100 trees have been removed since the article ran.

Someone else will have to put that in perspective, with respect to tree removal programs at other courses.

[Kyle Harris]

Tom,

If I am not mistaken wasnt there a ton of tree removal at Medinah?  I thought I remembered reading that but I heard the course used to have way too many trees..


Kyle,

Are there any particular holes you can think of whiuch have undergone massive, continuous change?


I agree AN has had a lot of change, but I think in a different way then Medinah, or at least the 17th hole.  The green has been moved four times, as have the tees, which have created four different par threes.  The only way I can see that kind of change happening to Augusta is if (and I hope this does not happen) the 12th hole gets changed, either by lengthening the hole or doing something else stupid that would ruin it.  
I do not know for sure, but the changes continually made to #17 at Medinah, seem to maybe have helped the hole..?  

Jordan,

I see your point, the closest thing of which I can think are the changes made to the 8th green over the years. See if you can dig up a picture of the green without all the mounds around it (it looks terrible) that were removed in the 40's(?) to enhance spectator visibility.

[Jay Cox]

Tom Doak or whoever can answer,

What was the problem with the 18th?

I believe the two problems were:
1) the hole was uncomfortably narrow and
2) there wasn't enough space for crowd flow, at least for an 18th hole of a major championship.

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