[Pete Lavallee]

Is anyone aware of a TRUE LINKS golf course that Robert Trent Jones Jr. has ever built?  I don’t think Spanish Bay qualifies.

Josh,

Are you aware the course originally had fescue, but the constant cart traffic killed it off. For anyone who played on the fescue version of SB, was it any better than whats's there now? I could see the contours actually coming into play with a firm playing surface. Agreed, the contours are meaningless with the current sticky turf they encourage now.

The secret to the links conditions at Bandon is the use of a colonial bent and fescue mix; but would that stand up under constant cart traffic? It will be interesting to see if they just want to build fake sand dunes at SP, or want real links like conditions.

[Josh Smith]

Josh,


    Will there be any bunkers shaped like Beany Babies at Sandpiper?  JK.


     That would be interesting... I have heard Couples plays there from time to time, in fact our mutual friend Craig King got to tee it with him there with Steve Pate's brother as well.  Would be cool to hear Fred's thoughts or dreams for the place.  

     If they are spending 70 million, no doubt, the quotes will start coming soon:   "Better than Pebble Beach"

     If I had money to spend on building golf,  I think I would look to Mike Keiser rather than The Donald as an stardard to aspire to.

     Josh, 70 million is nothing, (JK) The Donald spent more than that on the 18th hole alone at his ocean front course if memory serves.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

I played Sandpiper many years ago, perhaps 20, and liked it.

I also thought, that like Tokatee, it had great potential to be an even better golf course.

Has Sandpiper selected an architect ?

If so, what are his marching orders ?

They can improve on or detract from the existing golf course.
It would seem to be a wonderful opportunity, and a major responsibility.

[David Kelly]

Wow $70M.  Mr Warner either has delusions of grandeur or is just deluded period.

They are getting $120 during the week and $140 on the weekends plus cart fee and I don't think they are hurting for play.  I bet that he is going to look to double the green fees when the renovations are over.  Otherwise I don't see how they make back the money.

Its a great location but not a great golf site IMHO so even if Jones pulls off the faux links look I doubt the course can be much better than it is now.  The course is not world class or anything but I've always thought that it was perfectly fine

[Tom Jefferson]

Recollecting all my golf at Sandpiper way back when, the best (and most natural) holes are 2, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13, 14 (a strong par 4 along the bluff that oddly hasn't been mentioned here).
The weakness is the finish, from 15 in....nothing there to recommend....especially 18.

The line of eucalyptus and the opening in them that #2 plays through is a strong natural use of trees on a golf course.  Memorable for me as one who long ago left Santa Barbara, San Diego, and southern cal and their beautiful gum trees.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pete,
The one and only time I have played Spanish Bay on May 22, 1992, it was fescue. The greens were slightly slow, and the approaches weren't all that quick either. From my understanding, they never really gave them a chance to really mature before giving up on the idea of fescue on a Pebble Beach area course. In fact, and I think you'll appreciate this being a local and all, the first time I really ever experienced fat & firm was around 1981 or 1982 at Shadowridge in Vista. It was still pretty new back then, but everything ran fast, from the fairways to the greens.

I had never really ever experienced that kind of F&F until June 23, 1996, when I first stepped foot on the New Course and into a new whole dimension called, Links Golf.

Tom, #14 on Sandpiper is a very strong hole, strong, but very conventional.

[Joshua Pettit]

Josh,
There is a good possibility that I will be in the Bay Area this weekend, we should tee it up Monday.  

Funny that you mentioned "Better then Pebble Beach" because their aspirations are exactly that.  I sat in on the proposal meeting at Sandpiper with the superintendent and all the RTJ2 guys and the Ty Warner reps and their goal is to have something comparable to Pebble Beach.  They aren't concerned with making their money back, money is truly no object to them.  Instead Mr. Warner wants to have a top-notch golf course that his clients can play while staying at the Biltmore or the Bacara.  They can’t simply double the green fees because the only way they can get the project approved by the city is to assure them that the rates will stay reasonable for locals.


Pete.
I am aware that Spanish Bay was originally all fescue.  Even if it still was I think it would be debatable whether or not it can be classified as a true links style golf course.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Josh, I agree, it isn't.

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