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Mike_Sweeney

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #200 on: June 08, 2006, 10:22:15 AM »
Huck,

I normally don't read threads once they get onto the third page, as people are saying the same thing. But this one has been interesting. As an outsider to the event and never playing the course, one thing stood out at least in reading:

*the very good players (scratch types such Fortson, Brown and others I may not know) seemed to smoke the course

* the good players (2-8 yourself and some others that threw you under the bus online ;) ) did not seem to love the course

* the higher handicap players seemed to like it, with the exception of your fictious Dad who did not actually play.

Correct or incorrect? If correct, what is specific to Stone Eagle that creates such different camps?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 10:26:24 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Tom Huckaby

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #201 on: June 08, 2006, 10:30:25 AM »
Mike:

You have it just about right.  Just please note, that only captures what people have been willing to post here in public.  In private, well.....

I'll let someone else take a stab as to why it seems to have worked out this way.  

TH

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #202 on: June 08, 2006, 10:39:33 AM »
Mike,
   I think it comes down to where you miss shots. The sticks aren't going to miss many/any shots. The solid players will miss a few more and probably pay the highest price since they will likely get it pin high, but off line where the trouble is. Do note there is always a bailout, but I think players in this camp expect to be able to hit the shot. At my level and worse, we will often come up short (and short at SE is never going to kill you, maybe sand, but not death on the rocks), and depending on where our ball is going on any given day we will be fudging our aim towards the bailout. Now I know the solid players see those bailouts just like I do, but at SE the shots don't seem superhard so even I wasn't as inclined to bailout, but then when my shot started going offline I was suprised at how fast the rocks seemed to come into play. Just my theory, I could be totally wrong.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 10:41:00 AM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #203 on: June 08, 2006, 10:43:04 AM »
I'll take a stab..

The course plays very short for the low handicappers so with wide fairways, it is wedges into par 4's and irons into par 5's.

The 2 to 8's are good enough to think like the scratch guys that they should score well but not good enough to score like them.  That coupled with the tricky to read greens made their scores higher than they should have.  On a very severe site, makes it seem a bit like goofy golf to those players.

For the higher handicappers, the fairways are very wide, it plays short, and a lot of the drives are down hill.  That allowed many to be comfortable playing the back tees, where they probably don't normally feel comfortable. The grass in the fairways was longish, making it very easy to hit and chip off of. higher handicappers 3 putt a lot anyway, just here they were doing it on fun, severe greens..

I fall in the middle camp for the most part. As others have said,  I would love to play this course when traveling to PS, but probably not every day.  I feel that way about all mountain/desert courses I have played, however....
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 11:09:03 AM by Sean Leary »

Steve Pieracci

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #204 on: June 08, 2006, 10:50:19 AM »
Mike,
   The solid players will miss a few more and probably pay the highest price since they will likely get it pin high, but off line where the trouble is. Do note there is always a bailout, but I think players in this camp expect to be able to hit the shot.


Very well stated Ed.  Always expecting to to hit the shot intended is the most detrimental fault in my game.  

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #205 on: June 08, 2006, 10:55:23 AM »
Anyone above an 8 is a "higher handicapper"?  Come on, now.  I'm a 9.  The architect of Stone Eagle is a 10.  Show some respect. :)

Mike_Sweeney

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #206 on: June 08, 2006, 11:00:20 AM »
Anyone above an 8 is a "higher handicapper"?  Come on, now.  I'm a 9.  The architect of Stone Eagle is a 10.  Show some respect. :)

Tim,

9.6 and going higher. I am keeping Huck off balance for our next match. :D

Tom Huckaby

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #207 on: June 08, 2006, 11:02:51 AM »
Mike:

I'm at 5.0 with a rocket myself.  We'll play more even than you would ever have imagined, and not in the good way with you going down to meet me!

 ;D


ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #208 on: June 08, 2006, 11:03:06 AM »
Happy birthday to Jason Topp who turned 40 on Monday. It was great to meet so many GCA'ers that I can now put faces with the names. It was a great pleasure to meet Jeff Formanczyk, Jesse Jones, Sean Leary, Tony Peterson, Jason Topp, Jerry Kluger, John Cullum, and Steve Sailer. Thanks for coming out and helping make this another memorable event.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #209 on: June 08, 2006, 11:06:51 AM »
Quote
Tim,
9.6 and going higher. I am keeping Huck off balance for our next match. -Mike Sweeney


Yeah, but that smooth 80 you just posted on a 71.8/125 course ought to shake the sand out of your cuffs.  ;D
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mike_Sweeney

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #210 on: June 08, 2006, 11:17:36 AM »
I'll take a stab..

The course plays very short for the low handicappers so with wide fairways, it is wedges into par 4's and irons into par 5's.

The 2 to 8's are good enough to think like the scratch guys that they should score well but not good enough to score like them.  That coupled with the tricky to read greens made their scores higher than they should have.  On a very severe site, makes it seem a bit like goofy golf to those players.

For the higher handicappers, the fairways are very wide, it plays short, and a lot of the drives are down hill.  That allowed many to be comfortable playing the back tees, where they probably don't normally feel comfortable. The grass in the fairways was longish, making it very easy to hit and chip off of. higher handicappers 3 putt a lot anyway, just here they were doing it on fun, severe greens..

I fall in the middle camp for the most part. As others have said,  I would love to play this course when traveling to PS, but probably not every day.  I feel that way about all mountain/desert courses I have played, however....

Interesting. So is Stone Eagle the definition of a "Golfweek not a Golf Digest" Top 100 course with Mr. Huckaby once again being the poster boy or is it not worthy of Golfweek Modern?

PS. Jim the scary thing is that 80 was during a putt everything out tournament where I won low gross over 2 days by 7 or 8 shots so now I think that I can actually play!

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #211 on: June 08, 2006, 12:56:31 PM »
Mike,
   It is certainly worthy of top 100 Modern IMO. I haven't seen 100 moderns, so until then SE is IN. 8) I gave SE a Doak 8, so I would think 8's and above would be getting in.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 12:57:26 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #212 on: June 08, 2006, 02:30:49 PM »
Bob, I think you are just having guilt from trying to get by with such a high handicap for you. You hit the ball so much better than the number you told me.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 02:31:01 PM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Jordan Wall

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #213 on: June 08, 2006, 03:19:59 PM »
Next year in Nor Cal...

What are good Nor Cal courses to play for a KPV event?
Pasa?
Pebble (or is that too pricy)?

Tom Huckaby

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #214 on: June 08, 2006, 03:27:51 PM »
Jordan - Pebble would be WAY too pricey, and there's no way on God's green earth we could get a group of 40 on there in Spring 2007.

Pasa's been done already.

Tommy has a VERY good plan for us all for next year.  It will be up here.  He'll put out details at some point soon.

TH

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #215 on: June 08, 2006, 04:39:21 PM »
Next year in Nor Cal...

What are good Nor Cal courses to play for a KPV event?
Pasa?
Pebble (or is that too pricy)?


KPVI...not to be too picky!  :o
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Tom Huckaby

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #216 on: June 08, 2006, 04:42:08 PM »
Evan - good catch.  But of course to get it absolutely correct, we must add the hyphen, before the Roman numeral.

That is, KP-VI.

I also prefer the T to be included also, personally.

Because it is THE KING'S PUTTER, and next year will be the sixth version.

And yes, a more important post has never been made here.

 ;D
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 04:42:38 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #217 on: June 08, 2006, 04:46:41 PM »
Fair enough...TKP-VI it is boys!!!
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #218 on: June 08, 2006, 05:00:31 PM »
Shouldn't it be TKPC-VI?

The King's Putter CUP?

;D

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #219 on: June 08, 2006, 05:03:45 PM »
Speaking of the King, I kept on seeing Dan King's name on the attendee list ... did he sneak in and out before I got there?

Was he camouflaged as a cactus at Stone Eagle?  A grapefruit tree at Plantation?

This mystery must be solved ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tom Huckaby

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #220 on: June 08, 2006, 05:04:06 PM »
Ryan - no - Tommy will be the first to admit that was an error on his part.  Didn't you get to see the actual Putter?  It exists... oh yes it does... it's a real putter we play for, donated and created by one of the founding father's of this event and it's namesake, Dan King.

The model is The President's Putter, played for annually at Rye.  Here's one reference.  No Cup, oh no sir.

http://www.golfobserver.com/preview/golfnotebook/golfnotebook_122304.html

As you can see, at least in theory this is pretty serious business.

 ;D
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 05:05:41 PM by Tom Huckaby »

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #221 on: June 08, 2006, 05:05:34 PM »
Well hey, I agree with you - it's a competition for the putter, not a cup...

So, in the interest of accuracy, I am happy with TKP-VI

:)

Tom Huckaby

Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #222 on: June 08, 2006, 05:06:33 PM »
Ryan - good man.  And I am glad to see you note the huge import of all of this.

 ;D

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #223 on: June 08, 2006, 10:58:57 PM »
Said putter...

Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?
« Reply #224 on: June 10, 2006, 12:03:19 PM »
I am not sure if the summary is correct that the course was easy for the very low handicaps, frustrating for the 3-8 handicap, and more playable than Mr. H. says for the higher handicaps.  If that IS the case, I will take it.  I would have made it more frustrating for the 0-2 handicaps, too, but there wasn't enough room up on the hill to make it effectively longer.

Perhaps the 5-handicaps are MORE frustrated about the situation because they are getting bopped on both sides -- not only are the lower handicaps scoring well and telling them it's not so hard, but the higher handicaps aren't too bothered and are maybe even beating the 5's because the course has not gotten under their skin.

Of course, it's possible that the course really sucks and just that 90% of the players were sucked in by the stunning visuals of the place.  Everybody but Huckaby, and his silent majority who aren't talking, that is.   ;)  [If there are people who are bad-mouthing the course in private but afraid to say what they think on the board, they should be ashamed of themselves, especially for leaving Tom H. twisting in the wind here.  If there was more criticism of the course I would be more inclined not to ascribe it to one player's frustration -- and I KNOW you played one good round too, Tom, you've mentioned that already.]

Mr. Huntley:  The one thing Mr. Huckaby said which is NOT true is that an off-line approach is severely punished on every side of every hole.  It's not even close to that.  The highest handicap player in the field e-mailed me to report that he lost one ball over two rounds.  As for three-putts, they're out there on a lot of greens, if you get yourself more than twenty feet on the wrong side of the hole -- and there are a lot of deceptively large greens there which makes three-putting more common, i.e. you don't get many three-putts on small greens.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 12:06:37 PM by Tom_Doak »

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