Country with the most great courses per capita

« **on:** March 27, 2006, 01:50:51 PM »

In two weeks I will be in England. As I was planning my trip and looking at Golf Club websites I marvelled at the number of quality courses.
I got to thinking about which country is the deepest in quality courses per capita. Since I am Norwegian I would like to suggest Norway. But alas, reason and reality preclude that nomination.

It seems to me it would be Ireland. Ireland :)has about three and one half million people. Having played about 75 course there, I am convinced that per capita Ireland is head and shoulders above second place.

« **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2006, 02:13:22 PM »

Tommy: An interesting question, but you have to define what is a "great" course for this. Is it anything above a 5 on the Doak scale, or anything above a 7?

And is Scotland a country or does it get dragged down by the rest of the UK?

« **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2006, 02:20:46 PM »

Quote from: tommy Williamsen on March 27, 2006, 01:50:51 PM

In two weeks I will be in England. As I was planning my trip and looking at Golf Club websites I marvelled at the number of quality courses.
I got to thinking about which country is the deepest in quality courses per capita. Since I am Norwegian I would like to suggest Norway. But alas, reason and reality preclude that nomination.
It seems to me it would be Ireland. Ireland :)has about three and one half million people. Having played about 75 course there, I am convinced that per capita Ireland is head and shoulders above second place.

Rhode Island

« **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2006, 02:23:18 PM »

i would go with bermuda -

« **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2006, 06:07:16 PM »

Tom Doak, good question. I think I was thinking five on the Doak scale. That means that I really am talking about just very good courses. I think if we used 7 on your scale Ireland still might be in the lead. They havae some ver good inland courses tht are unique to Irish golf. Coolatin in the Wicklow Mountains is one example. What they really don't have are Heathland courses.
Sean, good point about N. Ireland. They are blessed with a few great courses and some little know gems.
Dave, I'm not sure I'm ready to let Rhode Island secede from the union.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2006, 08:44:15 PM »

Ireland followed by Scotland, then perhaps as a dark horse maybe New Zealand.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2006, 08:54:27 PM »

Sean,

What is considered the third great course in Northern Ireland. I know 1 and 2...

« **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2006, 08:56:27 PM »

Great would have to be 7 and above wouldn't it? Anything earning a 7 would make the top 150 in the world - there are plenty of ho-hum courses which get 5 or 6.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:37:26 AM »

Quote from: tommy Williamsen on March 27, 2006, 06:07:16 PM

Tom Doak, good question. I think I was thinking five on the Doak scale. That means that I really am talking about just very good courses. I think if we used 7 on your scale Ireland still might be in the lead. They havae some ver good inland courses tht are unique to Irish golf. Coolatin in the Wicklow Mountains is one example. What they really don't have are Heathland courses.
Sean, good point about N. Ireland. They are blessed with a few great courses and some little know gems.
Dave, I'm not sure I'm ready to let Rhode Island secede from the union.

I'm very fond of Coolatin. One thing unique to this course is the sound your ball makes when it hits the par 3 garden hole green. Drainage is a bit of a problem there, though.

Anyway, the fact that Ireland is one of the more under-populated countries in Europe gives it a bit of an advantage. It also has one of the fastest growing populations, so maybe it will slip down the list at some stage.

How many people live in Scotland, by the way?

« **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:01:36 AM »

Scotland

« **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:27:09 AM »

Scotland--5 million people/8 great courses = 625K people/great course
Eire--4 million people/3 great courses = 1,333K people/great course
Northern Ireland--1.6/million people/2 great courses = 800K people/great course
Ireland United--5.6 million people/5 great courses = 1,120 people/great course

Those are the facts, men, just the facts....

« **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:48:13 AM »

NZ - 3 million people and at least 2 great courses and arguably as many as 5 could make it a contender.

Cape Kidnappers and Kauri Cliffs are ranked in the Top 100 and Paraparaumu Beach is a better course than both.

« **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:00:55 AM »

Great course = Doak 7 or better, published in Confidential Guide

Australia: 19.5m / 8 = 1 per 2.44m
England: 50m / 21 = 1 per 2.38m
Scotland: 5.1m / 11 = 1 per 463,000
Northern Ireland: 1.7m / 2 = 1 per 850,000
Wales: 3m / 1 = 1 per 3m
Ireland: 4m / 5 = 1 per 800,000
USA: 295m / 95 = 1 per 3.1m
Bermuda: 65,000 / 1 = 1 per 65,000

The place to be is very clear!

« **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:06:44 AM »

kauri and ck weren't built yet.

but I don't think anything can compete with bermuda!

« **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:22:17 AM »

Correct Andrew - unless Doak or C&C build a course in Vatican City!

« **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:37:41 AM »

Portstewart one of the tope 18 in GBI.

Gotta see that place......

« **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:10:41 AM »

On these tough scales, I wonder if our Canadian experts would weigh in on how many great courses there are in Canada....I think there are three 7's in Doak's book and he hasn't played that many obviously. At one point I believe Canada may have had more golf courses (of all descriptions) per capita than any other country, perhaps due to the cheapness of land and the short season (more people playing in what little time they have!)

« **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:16:16 AM »

Quote

Boys

I went with the proviso that a country needed at least 3 great courses to be included. Sort of like a minimum at bats in baseball.

The three greats in NI are Portrush, Co. Down & Portstewart. I don't use the Doak scale because he gets it wrong sometimes.

By my count there are only 18 great courses in all of GB&I. Perhaps a few more will creep in later, but most are likely to be Irish. So Rich, Scotland is good, but at 5 courses for 5 million people, it ain't as good as either Ireland.

Ciao

Sean

Then jump back on NZ as a contender then for arguably 1 great course per 600,00 people.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2006, 07:28:42 AM »

As an Australian I find it hard to sing the praises of NZ, but credit where credit is due.

Having said that I found Kauri to be a bit overrted and there are at least 4 courses ion NZ better than it.

« **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:04:55 AM »

Andrew:

I haven't played around New Zealand as much as I would like, but there is no way NZ's top five courses compare with Ireland's. I doubt they would beat the "second five" in Scotland straight up.

Bermuda is the answer if you only need one great course to qualify. I like Scotland's case better than Ireland's or Northern Ireland's for multiple courses ... and sorry Sean, but if you're going to include Portstewart as a great course then you are going to have to include a bunch more in Scotland that are just as good as it.

« **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:20:34 AM »

5 great courses in Scotland?

TOC,Kingsbarns,Dornoch,North Berwick,Muirfield,Turnberry, Prestwick,Machrahanish,Royal Aberdeen,Cruden Bay,Troon(?)-hard to pare that (plus quite a few others some would nominate) down to 5.
No doubt I would throw in 10-15 more in Scotland I consider great(so far) but my tastes are a bit more quirky,setting ,and charm oriented

« **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:12:39 AM »

Scotland in a landslide.

« **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:44:17 AM »

I'm starting to think that a significant reasons for the plantations was so Scotland would have more great courses per head of capita than Ireland.

Anyway, I don't know the answer to the original question, but I'm happy with what we've go over here.

Here's what I think are the "great" courses of Ireland:

Portmarnock
The Island
Lahinch
Royal County Down
Royal Portrush
Ballybunion
Enniscrone
Baltray
Rosses Point
Waterville
Headfort New
and maybe Tralee

« **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:02:56 PM »

Hmmmm... at first glance one would have to say Scotland.... but the question is per capita...

Scotland - around 5 million in population

Ireland - around 4 million.

Jack presents a pretty damn fine list. Does Scotland really have that many more that are really great, more than a 5 to 4 ratio?

Maybe so, but I don't see at as a landslide - with all due respect, Gene.

« **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:20:57 PM »

You are incorrectomundo, AwShuckster!

If you are going to include the courses of Northern Ireland, you have to include their population, which is 1.6 million (see my post above), so they have more people in total than Scotland (5.6 vs. 5.0)

Jack's list is fine and he doesn't even include one of my faves, Portsalon, but it really doesn't compare to:

Muirfield
The Old Course
Dornoch
Carnoustie
Troon
Turnberry
Prestwick
Kingsbarns
Western Gailes
North Berwick
Cruden Bay
Aberdeen
Loch Lomond
Gullane
Nairn
Brora
Machrihanish
New Course
etc.
etc.
etc.

News:

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Tom_Doak

Dave_Miller

Gerry B

Tommy Williamsen

Andrew Thomson

Sean Leary

Chris Kane

Jack_Marr

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Andrew Thomson

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