[Mark_Fine]

Jim,
Is #12 at Augusta National a good hole?  How many "options" does that hole have?  

[mikes1160]

Jim,

Professionals from 123 yards out - to hell with their options  

[Matt_Cohn]

1. If there was a bail-out, who would take it? Seriously? Maybe a pro every once in a while, but certainly not the resort guests! And besides...

2. Mike is right. Why can't we expect a pro to hit a green with a 9-iron? Do we really need to let a pro aim 30 yards left, chip it on, and try to make par? Who wants to see that? It's a 9-iron!!! And if you really do want options...

3. There are plenty of options for the pros. Every pin position has at least two very distinct ways to play the shot. And finally...

4. Whoever talked about the look on Sergio's face was on to something. I just saw it on SportsCenter. You can tell he was thinking about that hole a lot before he played it.

[Kerry Gray]

Jim,
Is #12 at Augusta National a good hole?  How many "options" does that hole have?  

I would say a few. Very poor players can lay-up in front of Ray's Creek and have a short pitch to the green. The bunker at the back can save you from going in the trees so you can be a little long.You can bail-out to the right and have a pitch along the length of the green which is not horrible. The interesting part about #12 is whether to attack the pin for pros or play to the centre/left side of the green which is safe.
I think the conversation is gotten off track. The question is not whether the 17th is a good or bad hole. It is whether it is dramatic. It most certainly is. Most dramatic? It is a defendable position. Whether you like the hole or not, it is excellent drama to watch the pros sweat it out. Does any other hole cause such dramatic effects on players scores so late in the round? Perhaps not.
Whether we like the hole or not does not change the fact that we love watching the 12 car pile-up (or 12 stroke in Bob Tway's case) 4 days a year.
Perhaps we could start any number of other threads including is the 17th "fair"?
Cheers.
Kerry.

[Jim Nugent]

If the options were zero, we'd see one club, one distance, etc. from every player - not such a variety of shots, trajectories and uses of the slopes on the green.

That's a slight overstatement.  On most par 3's you see a range of clubs used.  Depends on the things you brought up -- conditions, trajectories, green complex -- plus how far the player hits his shots and what he is comfortable with.  TPC 17 does not seem to me unique in this.  

12th at Augusta: you can miss the green and make par or even birdie.  You are not doomed to almost sure double bogey or worse.  While I've never played the hole, looks like there is plenty of risk/reward there.  

Mark -- excellent suggestions on thinking outside the box.  

[Kyle Harris]

Jim,

Using the other par 3s at Sawgrass as an example, where do you see the variety in different ways to attack the hole?

Seems that every other par 3 out there was the same dump and feed process. To me, that too is exciting but there was little variance in trajectory since the distances there were further.

At 17, we see equalization of oppurtunity and, as you said, the type and ability of the golfer was tested - however, this wasn't Tiger Woods hitting 6-iron into a 220 yard hole vs. Fred Funk hitting 5-wood into the same. This was Mike Weir choking down and hitting a knock-punch 7-iron and then Phil Mickelson trying (unsuccessfully) to curl a 9-iron in tight. All to a hole 123 yards away. A yardage, which all things being equal is a wedge for any PGA Tour player.

If there were no options, everyone would be dumping wedge into the middle of the green.

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