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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Uncertainty in evaluating a golf hole
« on: March 20, 2006, 10:57:22 AM »
In keeping with my recent theme of sniping interesting parts of others' posts, I spotted this fascinating little morsel on the (heretical :)) Barnbougle thread:

Being "not sure" of the fourth is because it is the best hole of the lot.

I'm wondering how many other people feel this way.

Are there holes that you aren't sure about that may ultimately prove great?

Are there holes that you weren't sure about the first time you played them, then came to understand and love?

Can this be extended to entire courses? (Is Black Mesa great because I'm not quite certain about it? :))

What does anyone else think about this?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John Kavanaugh

Re:Uncertainty in evaluating a golf hole
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 11:02:38 AM »
George,

Who are you to tell me what is a good hole...you don't know my game.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 11:48:09 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Sam Sikes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Uncertainty in evaluating a golf hole
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 11:42:00 AM »
I would say I was more that a little uncertain about a few holes at NGLA at first.  Most notable the 3rd, or ALPS.  It is unlike any hole ive ever played, but after a few rounds it became one of my favorites.  I am sure many people feel this way about the hole.

I venture to say the same thing about the 9th hole at Kinloch.  It is a little overwhelming at first, but after many rounds, it is one I really look forward to, though I think it could be very easily improved.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Uncertainty in evaluating a golf hole
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 01:09:49 PM »
Multiple played will answer the question for you...and if they don't, it isn't a good hole
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Uncertainty in evaluating a golf hole
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 01:46:50 PM »
George,
If a hole, or a complete course for that matter, gets players thinking or makes them a bit uncertain about their feelings then the architect has done a great job. Time will always tell if 'great' should preface 'hole' or 'course'.    
If I remain uncertain about my feelings after multiple plays of a hole or a particular course neither makes it to my personal list of great.  
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mark_F

Re:Uncertainty in evaluating a golf hole
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 04:23:02 PM »
George,

Since I am the heretic that lead to that response from Tom Doak, I'll bite.

I was unsure of four at Barnbougle, because, to me, the best line in required a carry beyond that which I think 90% of golfers would not be able to make, even from the correct tees, and especially considering the prevailing wind conditions.

So you laid up and had a blind shot in just because you don't possess the cojones to blast a big tee shot.

The most precise approach wasn't rewarded as much as the one displaying brute strength, and a modicum of accuracy - a poor choice for a short par four?

15 on the same course is miles better for all the reasons four isn't.

And I think architects, maybe even the designers in question of a course, fall prey to misjudging, too.

In Golf Architecture magazine, written by Misters Doak and Clayton, the eighth is one of their picks as a top hole - yet is unequivocally condemned by (nearly?) all who play it as the worst hole on the course.

I still don't think four at Barnbougle is any good - but yes, there are a lot of holes which people don't seem to get for various reasons.

Maybe context is one of them.  Where a hole falls in a round, and what immediately precedes and follows it can have a lot to do with the overall excellence of a hole.  

I also think many many golfers have become mollycoddled simpletons who expect everything handed to them on a platter - the slightest hint of unorthodoxy, quirkiness, or anything that may require you to think outside the square is condemned.

I was disappointed in Dornoch the first time I played it, then began to understand...

I thought TOC was, with the exception of three or four holes, a pile of crap the first time I played it, and, having played it since, and walked it a couple more times, I think it is an even BIGGER pile of crap than the first time...

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