[Kyle Harris]

...with all this distance stuff?

Say nothing gets done and the ball gets maxed out in the next few years... 300 yard carries are no longer a problem for the upper echelon of amateur and all.

8,000 yard courses aren't the answer either, golf simply can't take up that kind of space anymore and expect to live through the next 20 years.

It's frustrating to me to hear all this talk about scaling back the distance, yet supers and architects are falling into the same old formulae regarding course construction and setup. There HAS to be a more creative way to keep course distance and footprints at bay and still challenge the long ball.

Given all this, how does the architect and the superintendent fight the long ball and still set up the course to test skill?

[Ryan Farrow]

Those neat little windmill things at the putt-putt courses.


But seriously and personally I think the length of golf courses will always be something difficult for the average golfer to conquer, no matter the technological advances. For the upper echelon of golfers I just feel the USGA needs to a better job and not let driving distances get out of control. It should not be something an architect has to worry about. And by worry  I mean they don’t need to leave room for another set of tiger tees  to be built in 20 years.

[Jim Thompson]

Kyle,

I think continuing down this path will lead to an increase in the frequency of central spines and ridges in future green designs to force players to approach the edge of fairways to acquire an attack angle while emphasizing shaping to increase that angle.  Further, I think supers will be forced to maintain extremely firm greens to counter the low spin ball in the hopes that private memberships feel the need to protect par more than their individual desire to play tees that their skill levels would have never allowed in the past.  The conditioning meld pendulum will swing to far to the extreme dry before it gets back in line and the "status value" of green will be replaced by the "status" of firm but will likely take another twenty years before coming back to center and healthy conditions.

Cheers!

JT

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

I think continuing down this path will lead to an increase in the frequency of central spines and ridges in future green designs to force players to approach the edge of fairways to acquire an attack angle while emphasizing shaping to increase that angle.  Further, I think supers will be forced to maintain extremely firm greens to counter the low spin ball in the hopes that private memberships feel the need to protect par more than their individual desire to play tees that their skill levels would have never allowed in the past.  The conditioning meld pendulum will swing to far to the extreme dry before it gets back in line and the "status value" of green will be replaced by the "status" of firm but will likely take another twenty years before coming back to center and healthy conditions.

Cheers!

JT

Jim,

Ryan and I are discussing this on AIM and we're reaching a similar conclusion regarding the spines. The work at Angel's Crossing seems to have a bit of this feature blending through out the course - was this a motivation behind their use?

I like the concept of course set up using the physics of the ball against the golfer. Place an less-than-perfect 300 yard drive at such a position, lie, and angle that the resulting trajectory requires an Tiger-like shot or some sort of scoring compromise.

[Jim Thompson]

Kyle,

Our approach at Angels was a bit more complex and not limited to confronting length alone.  One of our major premises in design was that we would 'punish the greedy not the needy'.  By that I mean that those who failed to examine the construction or features of a hole and just bomb for the center of the fairway find themselves very challenged with their approach shots.  In some cases the ridges also flip the intuitive assumption to play away from the pin to 'open up the green' for an appoach.  On the tenth for example the player must favor the pin side to avoid or utilize the greens central ridge.  We do keep greens very firm to counter the low spin ball.  When the areas of the green that go away from the players line of approach compound this condition the mindset of just throwing darts at the pin can get you in trouble very quickly.  Back to the tenth as the elavation of the approach shot increase the influence of the spine increases by virtue of deflection.  Now I know someone will say a wedge is easier to stop than a six iron on the green, but in several instances around the course the player left with a 170 yard shot will consider the ground shot by virtue of the likely hood of success versus throwing one up there by air.  A number of our greens also curved tiers whose central edge acts as a deflective spine in the greens internal contouring. Four, eight, nine, thirteen, fourteen and seventeen all do this to various levels.  I think you can get and idea from the hole drawing on the MHC.  Those topo lines represent significant contouring.

Hope that helps!

Cheers!
JT

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