[Tom Huckaby]

Rich:

I believe I am right in my assessment of what Sean is asking.

But I agree with you as to how this plays out - far more take them as good and just move on.  This might mean one or two vanity strokes for some...

But given how damn infrequently it occurs, well... I will fall back on this being a very, very small deal in the great scheme of things in golf.

TH

ps - you're quote is now immortalized - look below.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

Damn.  OK, so your point is about vanity handicaps.  Well the answer there is simple - seek these guys out!  Those are the ones you want to play for big money.  Who do they hurt except themselves?

So to me, that doesn't matter at all.

What MIGHT matter is the unscrupulous who take them as misses, and thus use this as legalized sandbagging.  But even then the instances are so infrequent...

I shall once again fall back on this being no big deal either way!

TH

[redanman]

See.....

We've got a guy at our place, a banker of all things (commercial ) head of da tone-a-mint committee, who misses all those two-footers after his partner makes and so personally, posting match play scores "most likely to have been made" is crap.

If you play a half and half set of tees, just fudge the two ratings/slopes if you must  

e.g.  blues 7000    par 72 73.5/130
      blacks 7250    par 72 75.5/136

Mucci Tees  ---   74.5/133 is close enough

Bigger question is

"Are enough people honest enough that handicaps even matter any more?"  

How many of your pals (under "pressure") shoot a score lower than their index only one out of four times?

But that's been belabored here before even more than Sandpines.  

[PThomas]

Sean - I'll bet most/all? of them were a Tiger -like 566 for 566 in the 3 foot and under range  when they posted them!

Paul - methinks you missed the point - or I did?  I think Sean was saying many took them as a miss, thus inflating their handicaps.

In any case, jeez in the scheme of things, think about how infrequently this occurs period... Seems to me to be no big deal one way or the other.

I might have missed your point Huck!  forgot about the sandbagging aspect...I was thinking the other way around, the "Oh, I would have made those 3 2-footers" mentality

and I'm not sure how much it occurs, a good question

[Tom Huckaby]

Paul - you were right and I was wrong in interpreting what Sean was saying.  But one way or the other, it's really no big deal.  This doesn't tend to occur all that much in the great scheme of things.

redanman - I'd say your suggestion is close enough as to how to post a mixture of tees.  Split the difference like that and you're never going to be off enough for it to make a difference at all for any one round.  But if you did EVERY round like this, well... it might be better to get it right.  As for how many shoot under their index, well... again you need to read the rules, concepts, methodology... you're really not SUPPOSED to shoot under your index more than 1 in 4 times.... it's a measure of potential, not any mean or average... remember only the best 10 scores out of the last 20 count to begin with....

TH

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Sean,

You either play the game of GOLF by the rules, or, you play some individualized, bastardized substitute.

The architect forged a disinterested, yet specific challenge for varying levels of golfers, and to avoid that challenge, on a hole by hole basis, by selecting other tees seems in perfect harmony with the "me" generation.

Call it what you want, but,
When the rules are broken at leisure, the game ceases to be golf.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

One notes that the tee markers are usually set by the superintendent's representative and not by the architect or by God so deviation from those markers should not be considered a venal sin.

That's not true.

The tees ARE determined by the architect, and the course rating, with daily, limited latitude given to the superintendent.

The handicap system depends upon play from designated tees

Tony Muldoon,

The holes weren't moved at the discretion of the player.

And, the teeing area was confined to one club length from the previous hole, with an intervening century before it was moved that incredible distance of another club length.

[Michael Moore]

You either play the game of GOLF by the rules, or, you play some individualized, bastardized substitute.

Pat Mucci Jr. -

In all sincerity, do you consider a round of PGA Tour golf played under a local "lift, clean and place" rule to be "golf" or to be a "bastardized substitute"?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

When I played Seven Canyons, I was paired with a slightly older gentleman who suggested that we play the "German tees." I asked, "Where are they?" He responded. "We'll play the par4s from the whites and the par3s and par5s from the blues." No problem. Good idea. Many clubs now have course ratings for "combo or mixed tees."

[Jordan Wall]

At a local course, Harbour Point, there are green tees which sometimes are placed with the white tees, sometimes on the blues, and sometimes on the blacks.  That way you can kind of play all the tees yet still enter a score and not actually 'switch tees'.  It's a good way to do it and can make for an interesting round.

[Doug Siebert]

Patrick - it's not life or death, I'm talking about a friendly game where I go out with 3 of my buddies to play, the only thing at stake is a friendly wager:

what could possibly be so bad if we ALL  agree that the "normal" tee on the 475 par 4 is too far back that day because of a 35 mile an hour wind in our face, so we move up one?

the game is supposed to be fun, remember?

Paul "definitely not brainless" Thomas

Sounds like a fun little par 5, so what's the problem with playing it at 475 just because the scorecard says its "par 4"?  Unless there's a long forced carry you failed to mention, of course...

People love to talk about options and having holes play differently under different conditions, but when different conditions intrude upon them they want to change the hole to make it play the same as it normally does?!  If you were playing one set up on that day because of the wind, would you move BACK a set of tees on that hole if it played with the wind?

Sometimes I think people miss the contradictions of the positions on GCA.  I look forward for redanman's essay on the beauty of wide vistas of foliage visible from the high tee of a drop shot par 3, which I believe is scheduled for release immediately after Tom MacWood finishes his book titled, "1960 to 1990, the true golden era of golf course architecture"

[Tony_Muldoon]

Does anybody have a suitable name for what I play?

Ciao

Sean

Goff  

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