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Brent Hutto

Betchworth Park
« on: February 17, 2006, 10:56:26 AM »
Here's a course that was laid out by Harry Colt in the decade before his work at Sunningdale and Wentworth.

http://www.betchworthparkgc.co.uk

On my way to the British Amateur this year I'm going to stop off for a couple of days near Gatwick including a day at Walton Heath. Betchworth Park is just a few miles south of there between Dorking and Reigate and happens to be near where I'm staying. Looks like an interesting course to check out while I'm there.

I found this brief history of the course on their web site and it really looks like for a course of that age there's still some relatively substantial bits of the Colt course evident. Or perhaps they understate the extent of the course's evolution.

Quote
The first change to the course was made in 1920, when the order in which the holes were played was changed to enable 4 balls to start on the tenth, and this remained until a new clubhouse was opened in 1966. The new clubhouse was positioned to give easy access to three starting and finishing holes, and to be nearer the practice area. Its location near the then seventeenth green meant a re-order of holes and the building of a new par 3 to replace the old seventeenth. Quickly, however, the new 2nd caused problems as those driving on the third had to wait for those putting on the second, so in 1969 a new 2nd was constructed and remains today. This is why there is a ‘spare’ par 3 at Betchworth, a hole that has proved very useful when the present tenth was re-constructed. The most recent change was the introduction of the two nines. In 2001 it was decided, after some considerable debate, to change the order of the holes to allow 2 nines, enabling members to play 9 or 18 holes and also to allow for 27 hole competitions.

Work on the course continues apace with recent work including a new white tee on the 12th, a new yellow tee on the first, all new tees on the 8th, new tee and green contours on the 10th and numerous areas of improvement including opening up the views of the river Mole on the 16th. It is interesting when viewing the photographs from 1912 during the construction of the course, to note that the river had virtually no trees on its banks at all, and must have afforded delightful views from the 12th green as well as the 15th and 16th fairways. The future holds even more developments for the club, with the planned purchase of the freehold, and with it the ability to offer golf to all in this beautiful setting for many years to come.

I'm particularly interested in seeing the newly-opened vistas overlooking the river. Sounds lovely. Has anyone played at Betchworth Park? What is the course like both GCA-wise and playing fun-wise?

Brent Hutto

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2006, 11:00:14 AM »
Let me ask one followup question not specifically about Betchworth Park. What are "downs" and more specifically the "North Downs" mentioned on the club's home page. It sounds like a downland is something high rather than low, despite the name. Does it mean having chalky soil?

And for that matter what is "weald"? Is that something to do with clay soil?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 11:01:25 AM by Brent Hutto »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2006, 11:04:28 AM »
Brent - I have zero knowledge of Betchwood Park.  However, I simply can't let your post go by without these comments:

1.  If the course is at all tough, I wonder how long it took for someone to substitute the e with an i?

2.  VERY cool you are going to Walton Heath - make sure and peruse the pictures in the clubhouse - check out the 1981 US Ryder Cup team - good lord was that a squad.  VERY friendly people there as well.

3.  It absolutely warms my hear that there is a town called "Dorking" - I think my kids need to live there, given that's what I yell at them they are doing when they're supposed to be doing chores, homework, etc. ("dammit, quit dorking around!")

My apologies for the absolutely meaningless post.

 ;D
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 11:05:16 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Richard Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2006, 11:14:43 AM »
Brent,
downland is a misnomer. These courses are generally on top of chalk hills. My home course in Berkshire is a downland course and if it weren't for all the stupid boundary trees it would have great views of the surrounding countryside.

Tom,
exactly what does Dorking mean.
My wife was born in Dorking and therefore she would be a 'Dork'. ;D
I could have fun with this.

Brent Hutto

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2006, 11:19:29 AM »
In US slang a "dork" can be used as akin to a "nerd" except with a much stronger component of physical ineptness.

Or it can be used to mean general ineptness and lack of being on the ball without any hint of the bookish talents of a "nerd".

Something like this. If you're a clueless, bumbling misfit who's good at schoolwork you're a "nerd". Without the book smarts you're just a "dork".

[EDIT] At the age of Tom's kids, I was a probably a "dork" who could fake being a "nerd" well enough to pass.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 11:20:56 AM by Brent Hutto »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2006, 11:21:21 AM »
Richard:

Look up "dork" at dictionary.com. Or maybe you shouldn't - your wife will not be pleased at the results.  Note also that I heard in a Nature channel TV show that it was the techinical anatomical name the vulgar slang definition as it pertains to a whale....

In any case in our family, "dorking around" means "ambling around like an idiot when one should be doing something worthwhile", more or less.

No offense to your wife.  It's an American thing.

 ;D

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2006, 11:22:37 AM »
Brent

The downs of the home counties are upland areas divided into South and North.  The North Downs run from Farnham(ish) to Dover, cutting just south of the M25.  The South Downs run from Winchester(ish) to Eastbourne and virtually to the sea at the Eastbourne end.  In between is a valley which runs to the channel, getting wider in Kent.  With all this channelled precipitation Kent is known as the Garden of England.  

Both areas are quite chalky and great walking with fantastic views.  Though the North Downs often run down to marshy areas on the north side and somewhat on the south side.  

If you are staying near Gatwick I would strongly suggest you play Pulborough.  You will not be disappopinted.

Ciao

Sean  
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Richard Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2006, 11:25:17 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downland
this should tell you all you need to know about the Downs.

ambling around like an idiot when one should be doing something worthwhile", more or less.

You mean like visiting this site. My wife would certainly agree with that.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2006, 11:29:15 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downland
this should tell you all you need to know about the Downs.

ambling around like an idiot when one should be doing something worthwhile", more or less.

You mean like visiting this site. My wife would certainly agree with that.

TOUCHE!!!!

Just do NOT let my kids see this.

 ;D

Brent Hutto

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2006, 11:42:23 AM »
If you are staying near Gatwick I would strongly suggest you play Pulborough.  You will not be disappopinted.

My priority list is pretty much running:

1 Walton Heath
2 Pulborough
T3 The Addington
T3 Royal Ashdown Forest

and I'm not sure yet how many days I'll have before departing for Sandwich. The guys I'll be with down in Kent won't have their itenerary set for another couple weeks. I'm suggesting Royal Ashdown Forest as a course I think these particular guys would really find fascinating but I'm also pitching Pulborough to them.

Also, I may be on my own either the Friday before or Monday after the trip to Kent. If it's just me I'd be at Pulborough in a heartbeat. So we'll see.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2006, 12:01:07 PM »
If you are staying near Gatwick I would strongly suggest you play Pulborough.  You will not be disappopinted.

My priority list is pretty much running:

1 Walton Heath
2 Pulborough
T3 The Addington
T3 Royal Ashdown Forest

I realize that Walton Heath is a major draw for many.  However, I found that Pulborough was infinitely more charming than Walton.  Much like North Berwick often outshines Muirfield for many tourists.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2006, 01:06:39 PM »
Dorking is the 'settlement of Deorc's people.'  

In addition to downs we also have Lows which are also ups - Shuttlings Low is a local hill (on the edge of the Peak District)I used to walk occasionally with the dog.

You need to be pretty thick skinned to live in England - there's a place called Aspull near Wigan, for a start.  Looe actuallyu has a golf course - Looe Bin Down.  There's a (fairly nondescript) village in the Vale of Evesham called Wyre Piddle, which used to make me laugh as a child, and in the West Country there are more Piddles.  Locals in Cockermouth probably maintain an oral tradition and I shudder to think what happens in Queen's Nympton.  Talking of which, you heard of the unmarried university lecturer who retired to Gaydon.  I suppose he could have gone to Crouch End or Compton Pauncefoot. They get sillier and sillier in Gidea Park, but in Killiecrankie they just do their nutters in.  Sometimes the locals are commemmorated in the village name, such as Constable Burton, although what Shirley might have done to be so honoured is not recorded.   They're a bit over-sexed in Cummersdale, and Coxhoe is presumably no longer PC in these enlightened times.  Little Onn describes a man's chances on a night out, but Little Snoring is not likely to be the result.  No doubt he will be Seething (village in Norfolk).  I challenge you to repeat several times and quickly Theddlethorpe All Saints.  Did it come out All Thaints?  Essex has a village called Ugley.  In Cambridgeshire there's Six Mile Bottom and for a small fee you might be allowed a Sixpenny Handley (village in Dorset).  Skipsea is not wise if taking the children on holiday and Oldham can give you food poisoning.  You'll find Beachy Head on page 78 of the Kama Sutra.  South Zeal is a bit too earnest for me and Blackgang too violent (village on the Isle of Wight).  There's almost a body to be mafe up from Kneesall, Armley, Sculthorpe, Footscray, Handcross and Hartlip, not forgetting Eye.  Evershot, the permanent alcoholic, Fitzhead (back to the oral stuff again), Over Wallop (what you get when her husband catches you) and Loggerheads, the inevitable disagreement, reflect the seedier side of life.  Pyworthy, however, certainly describes our local blackberries.

There are dozens more, but hungry son has just returned from work demanding feeding.  Pity!  I was enjoying myself.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 01:06:57 PM by Mark_Rowlinson »

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 01:17:54 PM »
I wanted to round it off, of course, with that wonderful London church dedication: St Mary with St Peter, Upper Holloway.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2006, 01:24:18 PM »
Mark:

I just wanted you to know I VERY much appreciated all of that.

 ;D ;D ;D

T_MacWood

Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2006, 01:30:13 PM »
CK Hutchison was building a new golf course at Looe in 1936, it was supposedly going to be one of the most testing in Britain. I'm not sure if it was completed or survived the war.

Speaking of Downs, Hutchison, Campbell and Hotchkin designed and built Southdown near Shoreham. Evidently it was a very good course unfortunately it did survive WWII. That trio also designed a course at Warsash - I'm not sure if that region is considered Downs - it did not make it after the war either.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2006, 01:40:14 PM »
Mark

The vale and out toward Worcester is loaded with oddities.  

Just down the road from Wyre Piddle (where there once was a fine brewery if you can believe that!) and North Piddle is Upton Snodsbury.  Heading toward Worcester is a dandy called Drakes Broughton.  Heading back toward Stratford are the very upscale Lenches, Rous and Church.  Before one gets there he will probably pass through one of my favourites, Flyford Flavell.  Yes, there is a ford there and yes cars do get stuck.  Now I am not at all sure if Grafton Flyford still has a ford or if the brother of Drake founded the village of Broughton Hackett.  Dropping back toward Drakes Broughton is Naunton Beauchamp.  A few miles west of there is White Ladies.  

There are some crackers in the North Cotswolds as well.  The Slaughters, Upper and Lower attract ducks which in turn attract tourists.  Tourist are money-God Save The Queen.  There is also Temple Guiting which should not be confused with Guiting Power.  Heading back the other side of Cheltenham and not too far from Painswick is the kicker, Stanley Pontlarge.  Presumably a chap called Stanley was the caretaker of the railroad bridge.

Speaking of caretakers.  There is a chap very near the village of Oddingley who will lift the railroad crossing barrier when you park outside his cottage, get out and ring the bell.  Odd indeed.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2006, 01:50:02 PM »
Sean, I know them well and remember them fondly.  Between 1953 and 1958 my parents lived at 44 Hanbury Road, Droitwich (so did I for that matter).  It was rather a small house, but they had it built in such a way that it could be extended upstairs to provide more bedrooms and bathrooms, but my father's work had him moved on before they could afford to do so.  We used to potter round all those little roads in our old Ford Popular.  I fancy Droitwich was only a 9-hole course then.  My father had not taken up golf at that point, but occasionally when he was taking me to school on a summer morning (he worked at the salt works at Stoke Works and I went to school at Rashwood, both long defunct) we often made the detour past the golf course just to look over the fence.  

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2006, 01:58:45 PM »
Mark

That is remarkable.  I drive the Hanbury all the time when head to the club.  I will have to stop and check some day.  Was the house in a row of brick semis on the right heading out of town just past the salt company?

You are correct.  Droitwich was a 9 holer then, much of it down to Braid.  In the late 70s Hawtree rerouted and made 18 holes.  Barely anything of Braid remains.  I still shamed the club into putting up a plaque to celebrate James and his contribution to Droitwich.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Richard Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2006, 02:16:46 PM »
There is a village in Hampshire called Dummer.
Surely it must be the ambition of every fool to become their village idiot.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2006, 05:01:30 AM »
Sean, as you leave Droitwich heading for Hanbury, it's one of a set of detached house on a service road on the right.  When we lived there there were only fields behind us, not that vast housing estate.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2006, 05:41:23 AM »
Mark

So your house was past the semis and under the hill?  I don't know what you mean by service road.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2006, 07:26:43 AM »
Sean, that's where it was.  A service road is a little road set back from the main road running along the fronts of the houses.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2006, 01:40:50 PM »
Mark

Yes, I had a look at your boyhood home.  Looks like a double garage has been added.  The view out the front would have been lovely in your day.  There is quite a new housing estate there now not to mention the ever present M5.  It looks like you lot got out while the gettin was good.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brent Hutto

Pulborough, Walton Heath, Royal Ashdown Forest
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2006, 09:40:46 AM »
This is moving afield from Betchworth Park but in followup to the discussion of Gatwick-centered golf courses worth seeing, I'm putting together some brief notes for my friend who will be passing through there on their way to the Amateur.

I feel that I should mention Sunningdale and Wentworth as the big-name clubs and then I also want to briefly summarize the appeal of Walton Heath, Pulborough and Royal Ashdown Forest as alternatives to the posher places everyone has heard of. What is a one-sentence summary of why someone would want to play each of those three alternatives?

Royal Ashdown Forest: World's finest bunkerless course...an example of how challenging and fascinating an all-natural golf course can be.

Walton Heath: Gorgeous, fair, immaculate...as historic and beautiful as Sunningdale without quite the notorieity or cost.

Pulborough: Quiet, scenic, fun and relaxing course of Par 68 but with a great set of challenging Par 3's and several long, though Par 4's to provide interest to the good player.

That's the best I can do not having seen any of these.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Betchworth Park
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2006, 10:41:30 AM »
Brent, If you are going to be centred on Gatwick, shouldn't you also include The Addington?

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