How about courses that exceed expectations

« **on:** February 03, 2006, 01:03:44 PM »

Lot of negativity around here, so I thought I would ask about courses that exceeded your expectations, and, especially, why they did so.

My first choice would be West Bend Country Club. I was aware of the Langford nine holes there and anxious to see them, but nothing prepared me for how good the land was. I really do think that it is more interesting terrain than Lawsonia, and Langford used it to great effect with some stunning stuff, especially the a short par 4 (7th?), with its green quite uphill and danger all around, and the 9th, going down, but there wasn't a weak or uninteresting hole on that 9.

Course, it didn't hurt that Mike McGuire was there to show me around and explain what was what.

Jeff Goldman

« **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:21:34 PM »

Portsalon

I expected the normal amount of Irish charm and quirk, but not greatness. With a little tweaking it could be in the top-5 of Irfeland, which is exalted company.

« **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:48:54 PM »

Winged Foot West. When I walked it in the fall it was much more interesting than I had envisioned. I had this mental picture of tight tree-lined fairways (think bowling alley), greens pinched in by bunkers (where you would have to walk single file to get on the green), and deep bunkers where the green was up to your head or higher. Figured I would play it once, have a colossal headache from being beat up by the course and never want to see it again.
The course I saw was an absolute revelation. There were trees but they weren't even close to be claustrophobic (and I am rather wild off the tee, so I tend to notice these things). The fairways are mowed a bit narrow I thought, but the openings into the greens were more playable than I thought they would be. The overall terrain flowed up and down more than I thought it would. The bunkers were not impossible looking by any means, although I found it interesting how they are maintained, where it seems most balls will roll back a ways from the lip, leaving a testier bunker shot than just trying to get the ball up fast enough to clear the lip. There was more contour to the greens than I expected, and I'm sure they live up to their reputation at normal speed, but they didn't seem like they would be impossible to putt on.
After having seen the course in person, I now actually look forward to having an opportunity to play it.

« **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:54:26 PM »

RTJ Jr's Kaluhyat at Turning Stone -creative and very challenging, not the usual

KBM's Hawk Pointe and Morgan Hill I was pleased with the greens and greensites and MH was amazing for the ridiculously severe site

Talking Stick South all the TSN hype, TSS is every bit as good if not better in its own way

Mayacama Best I've seen by JAck very solid, not without a glitch or two, not the "usual"

Inniscrone and then Tallgrass (Hanse) Lots of quirky quirk for the first, high results for a mundane piece of land for the second

Piping Rock Extremely good holes one after another and the volcano/plateau was way cool

Royal Aberdeen Doak was at least 2 full points off and the second nine is really good too, just not as spectacular

Totonto GC (Colt) the genius of sublimity as nowhere else

St. George's (Thompson) FAntastic use of an even more fantastic piece of land

just for a few

« **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:08:59 PM »

CC of Greenfield in MA...at the intersection of Rte. 2 and 91. Was expecting an tired old course, what I got was an amazingly fun routing and good conditions. I would highly recommend this course, and would go back any time myself.

« **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:28:13 PM »

An ecclectic list from the last 12 months:

Big Fish - Hayward WI

Woodlands - Melbourne

TPC at Sawgrass - it was a much more enjoyable and playable course than I expected. Water comes into play much less frequently than other Florida courses I have played.

Texarkana Golf Ranch - Terrific layout costing almost nothing to play. Dormant grass meant that to the extent there were conditioning issues, I did not notice them.

Shadow Creek - perhaps indicative of the impact this site has on my predispositions, I had no idea how much I would enjoy the experience.

« **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:41:54 PM »

I guess I'll throw Jim Engh's Hawktree in Bismarck, ND into this mix. A Top 100 course in the middle of blah North Dakota? Yeah, right!

Well, Jim took a very untamely and wild piece of property and "tamed" that beast! Great use of the natural land contours and vegetations, in many cases simply "smoothing" them out to fit the golf holes on its corridors. Very good use of all directions to "sample" the constantly howling winds of the upper midwest plains, great big greens with plenty of subtle and not so subtle internal contours. Lastly, for an interesting touch, all of the bunkers have a crushed black substance called "fly ash" which is a bit heavier than normal sand but reacts very similarly.

A breath of fresh air in a wide open expanse of nothing...

« **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:42:12 PM »

Co. Sligo, Ballybunion Old and Lahinch. This might surprise you, but this was back in the 1960s when nobody in England, except a very elite few, had ever heard of either let alone played them. My father and I toured the west of Ireland in a car and just happened to turn up at these places, find there was a golf course and play it. We didn't know they were great. At this sort of period, too, I used to play Royal County Down a lot with a cousin and I had no idea it had such status - we played in our ordinary shoes, with a shared bag of clubs and when we ran out of balls we walked in, and that happened frequently.

« **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:44:05 PM »

Jason,

Big Fish looks like a candidate for a little regional gang of GCAers. How far is that to Biwabak and Giants, Quarry courses? I gotta get up there sometime, and a spring fling would seem like a good time to grab some decent rates. Troy Burne is also on my radar, have you tried it?

« **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:44:18 PM »

Jeff,

Good topic. In the past year, I vote for Tobacco Road and Hidden Creek exceeding my expectations.
Hidden Creek presented a wonderful and varied challenge to me; there was plenty of room to play, and while not being excessively penal (i.e. no excessive use of water or decorative ponds) there was also a corresponding strategy for playing each hole; preferred angle to the green, preferred location on the green to land a shot depending on the hole location, to obtain the easiest possible putt. Greens were varied in size and undulation, specifically #s 1,5,10, 12, 18, to name several.
Flat terrain? Whatever. It's South Jersey. It's a coastal plain. Get over it. There was plenty of elevation change in many of the holes to create some interest, and the bunkering, in my opinion, could not have been better. I second Pat's statement of wanting to go directly from 18 green back to 1 tee to play again. I can honestly say, if it wasn't so far from my house (about 1.5 hrs by car), I would apply for Junior membership.
Tobacco Road was the same way. Prior to DCII, I had only seen pictures and aerials. It was so visually striking, but there was so much room again to play.

In 2004, it was Beechtree and Rolling Green Golf Club. What was expressed in various GCA photos and essays were good, but paled in comparison to seeing the course in person. Both courses I could play on a regular basis and be very, very happy.

« **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:45:23 PM »

I'll follow Jasons example with some random picks from the last 12 months.

Doonbeg - didn't have any big expectations but enjoyed the ride. 13 to 15 is a really good stretch of holes.

Tralee - thought that the first nine was nice but nothing special. Second half knocked me over with some really interesting and memorable holes.

Kebo Valley, ME - A course that showed a lot of charm.

« **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:50:14 PM »

For me, it was Walton Heath.

Although I really enjoy classic courses and usually do some pretty significant research before I play them, I came upon Walton Heath with little knowledge of the place. The staff was extremely gracious and I was immediately blown away with the practice putting green. I played the "new" course. I didn't play particulary well, but the round seemed to fly by as I couldn't wait to explore each next hole.

I'm scheduled to play it again in late April!

« **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:54:03 PM »

Quote from: RJ_Daley on February 03, 2006, 02:44:05 PM

Jason,

Big Fish looks like a candidate for a little regional gang of GCAers. How far is that to Biwabak and Giants, Quarry courses? I gotta get up there sometime, and a spring fling would seem like a good time to grab some decent rates. Troy Burne is also on my radar, have you tried it?

Mayor,

A trip such as this is definitely on the "short list" for me as I need to get uip Nort' for some play...count me in!

« **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:56:27 PM »

Grindstone Neck in Winter Harbor,ME was the GC that really exceeded expectations for me. A little 9 holer that I played just to get a golf fix while in the area for a wedding. Turns out that it was one hell of a layout over some really special terrain.

MH

« **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:58:34 PM »

Quote from: RJ_Daley on February 03, 2006, 02:44:05 PM

Jason,

Big Fish looks like a candidate for a little regional gang of GCAers. How far is that to Biwabak and Giants, Quarry courses? I gotta get up there sometime, and a spring fling would seem like a good time to grab some decent rates. Troy Burne is also on my radar, have you tried it?

Dick:

Big Fish would be a terrific halfway spot to meet. I think the Minnesota contingent is unanimous in its praise. We should make it happen next summer.

According to mapquest, it looks like about a 3 hour drive to Giant's Ridge from there. I would recommend playing Northland in Duluth on the way up.

I've played Troy Burne many times. I enjoy the course. Its a big brawny course with wide fairways, huge greens, usually kept in very fast and firm condition and exposed to the wind.

Although I am probably in the minority, I think Stoneridge (Bobby Weed), which is just across the river, is a better course built along similar lines. Six or seven 1/2 par holes, a very rough look to its bunkers (which unfortunately seems to have been softened a bit in recent years), a mini-biarritz green, a decent redan, a stillwell park like par three and a terrific 18th green that allows a long run up shot to feed down slopes to get to a back pin position. The back nine is built on a former quarry site and is very well done.

« **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:01:34 PM »

Yup, Kelly and I played Stoneridge (Weed) and I agree it exceeded my expectations, as well. Speaking of whom, has he editted himself off of GCA or what?

« **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:09:41 PM »

I've mentioned these on here before, but Kingussie and Boat of Garten in the Highlands exceeded expectations. Some quirk, ground game options on many holes, great mountain views. Both, but especially Boat, use the ground very well. I don't recall an uninteresting hole on the Boat.

Verulam (Braid) in St Albans was a pleasant surprise, as I was expecting nothing. Sam Ryder's home course has an odd routing (I suspect because it has to deal with a road through the property and a railroad beside), with crossing holes and two holes that play over the road from the tee (a par 3 and a par 4). Nonetheless the course is firm and fast with a lot of undulation both in fairways and greens. A very fun little course. Cheap too.

I'd also nominate Pinehurst #1.

« **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2006, 03:11:36 PM »

Gleneagles International in San Francisco, nine holes but has you begging for another nine like the one you just played afterward. I haven't played there in years, so I don't know about condition these days. Course is like Olympic club with burns like a scottish course, not a pitch & putt, full length nine.
Also Rancho Murieta North Course southeast of Sacramento. I have played almost all the great courses in California and would put this layout in my top five. Bert Stamps best work in my opinion. Rolling, oak trees, great test with great greens.

« **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:05:43 PM »

Canterbury, Garden City because of the timing. Pasatiempo. Double Eagle, I thought it was pretty good. Country Club of Hudson. The ultimate expectation exceeder for me was North Berwick. I think that 3 of their holes could potentially make my world 18.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:12:15 PM »

Quote from: Evan_Fleisher on February 03, 2006, 02:54:03 PM

Quote from: RJ_Daley on February 03, 2006, 02:44:05 PM
Jason,

Big Fish looks like a candidate for a little regional gang of GCAers. How far is that to Biwabak and Giants, Quarry courses? I gotta get up there sometime, and a spring fling would seem like a good time to grab some decent rates. Troy Burne is also on my radar, have you tried it?

Mayor,

A trip such as this is definitely on the "short list" for me as I need to get uip Nort' for some play...count me in!

I might very well be interested too!

« **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:20:34 PM »

WILD HORSE

« **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:25:14 PM »

To Bill, Mark,Eric, and Sean who included Irish courses in their selection, here is a little visual addition to back up your claim.

Lahinch # 12

Doonbeg #15

Sligo/Rosses Point #17

Enniscrone #16

Tralee #17

« **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:29:48 PM »

Royal St Kitts.

I was on vacation so I brought my clubs. I played there and the RTJ at Nevis. Nevis was nice but Royal St. Kitts was a BLAST! They had just finished a major rennovation last summer.

The course winds through a tidal marsh area and then closes along the beach. Great prevailing winds, bunkers well placed to take advantage of the winds, great risk reward opportunities from the tee and on second shots. It was WAY better than I had anticipated.

Anyone else ever played it?

« **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:40:19 PM »

I think Aidan's photos would have a goat ranch exceeding expectations.

« **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:45:13 PM »

In order of being wowed:

1) Boston Golf Club;

2) Laurel Links;

3) Bellport Country Club (holes 9-17)

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