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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rules Question
« on: January 25, 2006, 11:49:43 AM »
Yesterday, my ball buried in the face of a bunker. In order to get a stance, I asked my caddy to hold onto my left hand while I balanced myself on the steep upslope. Once I was able to dig my feet in, I let go and hit the shot.

Afterwards, I got to thinking, was that a rules violation?
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

JohnV

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2006, 12:39:36 PM »
Rule 14 says that you cannot accept physical assistance in making the stroke.  Since he let go before you swung, you are ok on that account.

As along as you didn't "build a stance" in digging your feet in, you are probably ok on that front also.  If you just dug your feet in and didn't move sand to level the area or knock down the side of the bunker, you are probably ok there also.

Having not seen what you did, I'd guess you are ok.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rules Question
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2006, 12:47:40 PM »
Rule 13 allows you to fairly take your stance firmly.

The exception to rule 13 says you can touch the surface of a hazard to prevent falling.

Rule 6 allows a player to be assisted by a caddy.

Taking all of these together, I say the rules allow a caddy to assist a player to take a stance in a bunker.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

TEPaul

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2006, 01:43:46 PM »
cary:

You can get there any old way you want to because it's all in the stroke anyway. But don't forget that rule 14-2 (Assistance) has two parts---A and B---so the prohibition is a little more than just accepting physical assistance. It also talks about "protection" as well as not having various caddies or partners positioning themselves on or close to an extension of the line of play or putt behind the ball.

If JohnV was officiating and your caddie let go of you and then fell into a heap in the bunker directly behind you and you hit your shot JohnV would probably have your ass in the penitentary before the end of the day where if it was me, I'd just laugh, cough and with a wink say "forgetaboutit".  ;)

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rules Question
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2006, 02:44:49 PM »
There was the famous case of Bernhard Langer climbing into the tree at the 17th at Fulford to play his shot.  He needed the assistance of his caddie to climb into the tree and out of it.  He was not penalised at the time, but I have heard it said on the television that he should have been.

JohnV

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2006, 03:08:35 PM »
Not me Tom, I'd refer to Decision 14-2/4 which says that if the caddie is there inadvertently it is not a penalty.

Jordan Wall

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2006, 03:37:53 PM »
What would the rule be if you took your stance but the ball moved and became unburied and rolled a little bit, even though you did not touch the ball???

Kyle Harris

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2006, 03:42:08 PM »
The ball moved while you had addressed it, since in a hazard you only need to plant your feet to address the ball.

JohnV

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2006, 03:46:29 PM »
Kyle has it right.  The definition of addressing your ball says that if the ball is in a bunker you have addressed it once you have placed your feet.  Rule 18-2b says that if your ball moves after you've addressed it, it is a one stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced.  If you don't replace it, you would get a two stroke penalty in stroke play or lose the hole in match play.

TEPaul

Re:Rules Question
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2006, 04:54:17 PM »
MarkR:

When I went by that tree that Langer climbed up into on the 17th at Fulford they pointed it out to me and told me the story.

Of course I immediately shinnied up the tree to where Langer was and my hosts asked me what the hell I was doing. I told them I was recreating the Langer 17th at Fulford incident. At that point my hosts told me there was a pretty big difference and I said; "Oh yeah, what's that?"

Then they told me Langer's ball was up in the tree with him and my ball was on the green.

At that point I had to admit to being the idiot I really am and I shinnied back down the Langer tree at the 17th at Fulford.

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