[mike_malone]

 David,

   Twisted Dune is a good example of another way to penalize the golfer. I don't know where else within hundreds of miles of there where you can be on a 30 foot dune with a sidehill shot and pebbles in the way! But at least I can take a FULL swing at it.

    I think we can find common ground here. I also think not being in the fairway should have a price. But that price should be  having to execute a more challenging shot than if I were in the fairway. A "challenging" shot is one that takes me out of my comfort zone. Punching out is very comfortable; you just do it and move on.

   At my home course there is an uphill hole that can lead to a rollback of 40-50 yards if you come up short of the green. Many of the mid to high hdcpers just aim for the rough . That should not be a good option.

[wsmorrison]

"At my home course there is an uphill hole that can lead to a rollback of 40-50 yards if you come up short of the green. Many of the mid to high hdcpers just aim for the rough . That should not be a good option."

I don't see what this has to do with trees, but why not aim for the rough for mid to high handicappers?  What is the alternative on 4, 8 and 15 for those that can't reach the green and would thus roll down the hills quite a way from the greens?  They end up with a tight lie on a steep hill to difficult greens.  What would you have them and low handicappers that do not have length do, such as is needed on 8?

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,

   It is an example of less penalty for being in the rough than in the fairway. David seems adamant that he be punished for missing fairways.

 

[mike_malone]

 David,

  Another thought about that tree lined straight hole. For many a course the fairway may have been where those trees are. So, you would be in the fairway if the darned thing was where it was supposed to be!

   The rough was designed to be farther off the centerline so that the "punished" shot would be farther afield.

   I have been having this conversation with some at my club about some trees on a straight hole. The tree defenders say  "If there are no trees there and I hit over there I have a wideopen shot to the green even though it is out of the rough." But if the fairway were there they could see that it is in fact the ideal place to be and was designed that way.

[mike_malone]

 David,

  Have you thought about the high hdcper who is  well behind that "flogger" and has no shot because you wanted to punish the big hitter but now you also punish the guy who is already
"distance challenged".

   That is why you should be fearful of these hazards in the sky. They limit the options for play for all levels of player when their intent may only be for the scratch golfer.

[David Panzarasa]

mayday,
Once again I agree....and i also think that it could get boring fast hitting out of trees on ever hole, reason I try to stay in the fairways lol.
 But, this is just where I differ in opinion. I dont think you need to have a full swing always from outside the fairway or where you "wanted" to be. I dont believe in torture or "like" punishment lol, but I just think that you get what you deserve if your not on the fairways or at least close to the fairways.
 As for your one example, where your course has trees where the the fairway is suppose to be. First, that is just idiotic i would think. To take away the fairway that was originally there. BUT, if I was to go there and play that hole, not knowing that these trees are on what use to be the fairway and the best angle...I would not know any better, and still HAVE to try and hit the fairway and if it goes into the new trees then so be it. I can see that I am not suppose to be there.  
 but i do agree with your comments and Redanmans as well. I just like tighter courses and smaller ones as well. They are more visually appealing to me

[mike_malone]

 David,

    You are certainly welcome to your opinion and I wish you well playing those tree lined holes. Just stay off the green committee at my club

[David Panzarasa]

David,

  Have you thought about the high hdcper who is  well behind that "flogger" and has no shot because you wanted to punish the big hitter but now you also punish the guy who is already
"distance challenged".

   That is why you should be fearful of these hazards in the sky. They limit the options for play for all levels of player when their intent may only be for the scratch golfer.

Mayday,
 I have thought of these golfers, and I think this is why I am so stubborn on this. This is what brings the shorter hitters into the game and can play with the big boys in my opinion. PGA is a perfect example, look at the small tighter courses and you will see the real ball strikers, and everyone basically in the field. Put these long courses and you have tiger, phil and so on.
 I think with the courses I like, the shorter hitter has a better chance to win or compete. TPC we see Funk win this past year. Granted these people are all great and PGA players, but it is very relevant with the mid to high handicappers as well.
 Also, I am not trying to punish the big hitters. I am trying to punish people that cant hit the fairway. And that would effect the long and short hitter the same my way i think?

[David Panzarasa]

David,

    You are certainly welcome to your opinion and I wish you well playing those tree lined holes. Just stay off the green committee at my club

lol will do lol.

[redanman]

David

My biggest objection to trees is that they are bad for the grass.  They are weeds competing with the grass for all intents and purposes.

BV

[mike_malone]

 David,
    I think it is  Funk's straightness not his distance that accounts for his win. The short hitters who are off line don't last on tour.

   But even for pros , don't you really want to penalize the long wayward hitter not the short wayward one ? Be creative and devise something for them.

 

[David Panzarasa]

 The Funk being straight kind of is perfect to my point no?
IF the trees hurt the shorter hitter more then the longer hitter (and by that much) i would love to see courses that hurt the longer hitter then...but which ones do?
 Since we are all golfing fans...what courses on the pga that we see hurt the longer hitters? I think the courses that most pros love (or traditional pga pros) are harbour town, riviera....all courses that are shorter and creative. Brings everyone in the field. And yet harbour town is hated by many or needs tree programs from people here.

[PThomas]

both short and long wayward hitters deserve their punishment!

[Steve Curry]

Paul,

Rough, Sand and water it is!

Steve

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