Jerry Pate Design

[Bill_McBride]

I was interested to note in the "Gil Hanse Capstone" thread currently on page 2 that two other region courses are well-regarded: Limestone Springs outside Birmingham and Ol' Colony in Tuscaloosa.  Both are Jerry Pate Golf Design courses.

I have enjoyed the Pate courses I've played-- Kiva Dunes, Steelwood, Brewton Country Club (AL) -- and wonder if others have been impressed with Jerry's designs?

I have always heard good things about Old Waverly and Dancing Rabbit (both in Mississippi).  I am now very impressed with the work Jerry and his lead designer, Steve Dana, are doing on the renovation / remodeling of Pensacola CC.

A previously flat course, very high water table, always mucky, is being changed into a course with more internal movement in the fairways and a series of connected lakes that will lower the water table at least three feet.  The construction has also included turning the soil in all fairways to get the sand back up on top.  We are anticipating 'fast and firm' late fall this year when the course reopens.

The 7th hole is a very nifty reverse Redan with a swale across the fall away green, and 240 from the tips!  

Comments on Jerry Pate courses you've played are solicited.

[Gerry B]

he designed Indianwood New outside of Detroit - it is a beast - many forced carries and a slope rating in the upper 140's- the problem is that the other course -Indianwood Old  - built in the 1920's -  destroys it - and  that sentiment is confirmed by an overwhelming majority who have played both.

[Mark Brown]

I played Old Waverly when it was new and enjoyed it. He's one of the few "Player" architects that spends a lot of time on site and he know construction and has his own turfgrass facility. He's the real deal and he's a great guy -- mellowed by some trials and tribulations regarding his shoulder injury and his descendence on the Tour. And he played some pretty good golf on the Champions Tour -- accept one wedge shot...

[Tommy Williamsen]

If I remember correctly he designed a new course in South Jersey, called Shadow Isle.  I thought it was most enjoyable and fun.  The wind was a factor and the shots into the greens called for some inventiveness.  I played it all the way back and for this 58 year old was a tad toooo long for me.  I'd go back.

[Bill_McBride]

Steelwood in Loxley AL (between Mobile and Pensacola on I-10) has the same issue as Indianwood - several stout forced carries.  It's an issue for the ladies, few of whom play there, and McBride on a day when those long irons and fairway woods are not getting up in the air quite soon enough!  

Not only has Jerry been spending a lot of time on site, he's practically living there!  He grew up as a member of PCC and is really committed to giving us the best course on this stretch of the Gulf Coast.  I know that our 18th hole, a 160 yard par 3 between the bay and the clubhouse, will be the most memorable hole in the area.

Much appreciation to Jerry, his lead designer Steve Dana, and his brother Scott, the owner of Seaside Golf Construction, who are doing a great job for us.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bill, I find Jerry's work to be good but not great. It was always his personality that created the discussion though not his design skill. His love of the city will hopefully carry the day for you guys. I am not sure how much I really like Kiva Dunes which along with Steelwood are his banner solo projects. Tiger Point was long eough ago that I hope his water features are in his past for they in a word suck. Kiva had some of the same borrow pit style earthworks/water features as well. I would monitor his water hazzards.

[Bill_McBride]

The water hazards at PCC are critical, as we have to lower the water table but need natural looking lakes.  This must be seen.

I would really like to get up to see Limestone Springs.

[Matt_Ward]

On the Pate front you also have the relatively new Shadow Isle GC in Colts Neck, NJ.

Well done -- although the first few holes are merely appetizers for what is ahead. When you get to the back-to-back long par-4's at the 5th and 6th holes you begin to see what Pate can offer.

IMHO, the long 6th is one of Jersey's best par-4's. It can be hooked up against any other in the state and will fare very well.

The green contours are nicely done and for such a flat site there's plenty of keep one's interest. Don't see the course as a top 20 layout in NJ -- only because the competition is that stiff -- but Shadow Isle is a welcomed addition and one any traveling / visiting player should keep on the radar screen.

[Bill_McBride]

Matt, thanks for that update.  Jerry has also done some work out at La Quinta lately; hope to see that at front or back end of the Kings Putter in Palm Springs in June.

John B, have to agree with you about Kiva Dunes, I particularly don't care much for the holes along the canal (16-17), and the 18th has always been hard to figure out.  But the start and most of the course is challenging, especially when the wind is up.

[John Goodman]

Bill - I have played Limestone Springs and Timberline (Calera AL, formerly Buxtahatchee CC) many times, and Old Overton (co-design with Fazio) and the Dancing Rabbit courses (co-designs with Fazio and R. Jones) a handful of times.  I have no excuse for not having played Old Colony.  I'm sort of in Tiger's camp; I think Pate's work is very good though not extraordinary.  Limestone strikes me as the best of his work that I've seen, though there are some very fine holes, especially on the back nine, at Old Overton (I'm thinking of 10, 11, 17 and 18).