[Tommy Williamsen]

I just came back from visiting my folks in Muskegon MI.  Whenever I go home I have to drive down to the "big" lake or Lake Michigan to you outlanders.  The shoreline along the Michigan coast is a veritable bastion of dunesland.  Whenever I run along the dunes, I design a course among the dunes.  Outside of Arcadia Bluffs and Bay Harbor the Michigan coast is just waiting for a links.  Neither Arcadia nor Bay  Harbor really are representative of what could be done.  

Do you know of any possible sites that could be used.

[S. Huffstutler]

 "Outside of Arcadia Bluffs and Bay Harbor the Michigan coast is just waiting for a links.  Neither Arcadia nor Bay  Harbor really are representative of what could be done."



Unless you plan to buy enough land to fit the entire eighteen along the shoreline, I don't see how you could do much better than Arcadia Bluffs...you can see the lake from every hole.

Regards

Steve

[Paul Payne]

I have always wondered that exact same thing. I know the season is short but some of the settings would be wonderful.

I grew up in the upper peninsula of Michigan, (yes, a yooper). If you drew a line between Marquette on the northern Superior shore, and Escanaba on the southern Lake Michigan shore, there would be dozens of sites potentially available from that line eastwards. Sites that would supply ample dunes and vistas. I do know that there is still a lot of shoreline in private hands or is public domain with no potential designation.

With all the dunes and shoreline I have always thought this would be cinch, but apparently not. I figure if you can build a great course in Mullen, surely you could build one in Engadine.

[Jfaspen]

I think the biggest + in terms of the Michigan Shoreline is the stretch of bluffs extending from Muskegon on upwards.  

I played Old Channel Trail this year, it was close enough to see the lake from one hole, but otherwise devoid of views and sheltered from the wind.

I really enjoyed Arcadia Bluffs and look forward to getting back there soon.  There are dozens of potential sights, I think the problem is that the state's population centers are mostly in the southeast leaving a 3-4 hour drive to the western shore.

Hopefully more is done with the shoreline in the near future though.

Jeff

[Paul Payne]

So that brings up a good question;

Why do the locals in an area like the U.P. try to develop parkland courses like you see everywhere else? Are they going for tourism only? And they rarely afford to do it well so you get a lot of mediocre golf courses.

Why don't they learn from those in the old country and develop course that fit and use the natrual land better i.e. the dunes and shoreline? It would likely be cheaper, more attractive, more interesting, and in the end may create a more unique course which people would be willing to travel to see.

[cary lichtenstein]

As we drove from Arcadia Bluffs north to Greywalls We could help but say the same thing a dozen times. The problem as I see it is whether the developer could make a profit.

The land would have to be affordable and I doubt there is much shore land that fits into the affordable category.

[Jim Thompson]

I think you guys would be VERY surprised to see what the plat maps look like along the Michigan coastline, particularly along the West coast.  Apart from the regularly interval of land held by the State and various utility companies, it is, for the most part, divided up between families and it is NOT FOR SALE.  Your best bet is to get a hold of some damaged goods like the sight Bay Harbor is on.  I know of a nice piece, approx 300 continuous acres, between Michigan City and Muskegon that is held by a single family that may be available someday and there’s no way I’m telling anyone where it is!

There are some terrific large chunks of land along the sunrise side that may also be available in the next ten years.  That will yield better golf than the west coast.  But they don't have a sunset.

How good is Arcadia in your mind without the views?  meant as a serious question by the way...

Cheers!

JT

[Paul Payne]

What about the south shore of the U.P. Remote?... I should say so, but it is an east west shorline (fairly unusual) so it gets both sunrise and sunsets and is rife with derelict dune property and mom and pop motels etc. that I am sure could be convinced their fortunes may lay elsewhere. It is not a speculators haven yet.

[S. Huffstutler]

Jim: Arcadia Bluffs would be awesome if it were set in a junkyard. The lake views do add to the ambiance, though. How much golf can Michigan handle? It seems to me that I'm reading about courses going belly up and becoming housing developments all the time. The UP is beautiful, but sparcely inhabited and lightly visited, building a golf course there is taking a real chance, regardless of the cost of land.

Steve

[Grant Davey]

Just North of Ludington and near Big Sable Lighthouse? is the ultimate dunal system, not as far as Sleeping Bear. The only catch is I believe it's all state park but still definitely worth a visit.
Grant

[plabatt]

Jim Thompson is dead on-the land is not for sale.  IMO the site that never reached its potential was the Grand Haven Golf club.  Wonderful sand base and avenues of pine, but old Bruce Matthews kept those dull green sites.  The site has so much potential, all it needs is a creative architect.  I think Jim knows one with Matthews blood lines.

[Jay Flemma]

I like arcadia too...interesting routing how 7 and 15 also play back to the clubhouse...sure confused the heck outta me walking the course one day though!  I get back to the clubhouse at 7 and looked around wondering where I took the wrong turn.  There is GOOD...strategy there...ot outstanding but good...I wish there were more holeslike 3,4,5...That huge cross bunker is an all time fave.  Yes, the coastline helps elevate the ranking (IMHO), but its got some steak as well as some sizzle.  9-12 is an excellent stretch, especially the ruimbling fairway at 11 which tumbles down to the sea.

[Tom_Doak]

If they would let us build on that stuff then I would not be flying halfway around the world so often.

On top of the land-ownership issue, there is something called the critical dune act which makes it difficult to do grading on any dunes area within one mile of Lake Michigan.  This even came into play at Lost Dunes, AFTER the dunes had been mined away.  It doesn't necessarily prohibit development but it does make earthmoving a lot more complicated ... basically everything with a 3:1 slope or steeper has to stay exactly as it is.

[Mike McGuire]

On top of the land-ownership issue, there is something called the critical dune act which makes it difficult to do grading on any dunes area within one mile of Lake Michigan.  This even came into play at Lost Dunes, AFTER the dunes had been mined away.  It doesn't necessarily prohibit development but it does make earthmoving a lot more complicated ... basically everything with a 3:1 slope or steeper has to stay exactly as it is.

WOW....  How valuable is that info?  How would you like to spend a couple years and a couple million dollars and then find that out?

[Brad Klein]

Mike, you're dead on, which is why you'd option the land first and find out whether its permitted - something basic to due diligence.

The problem with developing links golf in the US is that coastal protection everywhere - think the California Coastal Commission - is extremely restrictive. In fact, the laws are needed to prevent garish construction of buildings and to limit erosion. Most golf courses would, however, be beneficial to the coastal landforms, proving they didn't develop too lush a model of construction and maintenance. This is one of those many cases where the positive environmental impact of golf gets overlooked or subordinated because of the larger deleterious impact of other, hardscape projects (i.e. big box stores, parking lots, convention centers).  

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()