[JESII]

The title topic really says what I want to ask.

It comes up all the time how this idea or that will hurt or help the growth of the game. Recently, Lou Duran expressed his objection to "micro-undulations" (MU) via the reasoning of it will only make the game more difficult for the higher handicapper in relation to the lower. I cannot argue that. My problem is, why does the game need to be easy/easier?

Can the game be sold as a challenging, difficult game with significant upside benefits such as the outdoor environment (fresh air, attractive surroundings, etc...), exercise, ability to play at all ages, a system which levels the playing field for competitive purposes.

Why does the game need to grow?

[Kyle Harris]

Jim,

I think the problem is the game needs to stop shrinking in numbers of rounds played and stop growing in course length and distance.

I'd rather see more golfers continue with the game than a higher rate of new players.

[JESII]

Kyle,

Agree 100% with your second sentence. I think trying to cater to non-golfers to attract them to the game has hurt the persistency of current golfers. The way the game is presented has changed (probably several times) over the last 80 years and the presentation today is not good in my opinion.

[Kyle Harris]

Jim,

You're dead on. The presentation is poor, at best. Pros are more concerned with bringing new people to the game than they are with taking steps to retain players at the same club. Unless a course has distinct areas for beginners and experts, it is impossible to cater to both without compromising something.

[Lou_Duran]

Gentlemen,

People face one undeniable reality, they die.

All things either grow or decline; balance or the status quo is so brief that it is mostly theoretical.

Fewer rounds played in a still growing population means that we are not replacing golfers as frequently as they are leaving the game.  I think the data from the NGF suggests that as many people are leaving the game as are coming into it, so perhaps the average # of rounds played per capita may also be going down.

The baby-boomers are going to start dying off with greater frequency in the coming decade.  I don't think I've seen anything which suggests that upcoming generations have a greaty propensity to participate in golf.

A considerable part of our population growth is attributable to legal and illegal immigration.  I doubt that much has been done to attract these folks, and cultural factors are not favorable to heavy participation from these new Americans.

In many parts of the country, golf courses are having an exceedingly hard time making their mortgage payments.  If these fail financially, we all loose.  No doubt that many will close down- which alleviates the over-supply problem somewhat for those owners who can survive, and many of the others will operate as a shell of their former selves.  I can't see how this is good for the consumer.

Of course, if the game doesn't grow there is an impact on every manufacturer and supplier.  I know that many here don't like companies, but what about the folks who work there?  I guess that they can become clerks at Walmart.

This may be sanctimonious on my part, but if one loves golf as a meaningful part of life, wouldn't he want others to become exposed to the game?  Yea, Bubba in his tube socks and sunflower shell spitting can be a pain in the ass.  Why not maybe take him to the side and "educate" him politely?

The sad fact is that many core golfers are a big part of the problem when it comes to courtesy on the course.  A good friend of mine complains about riders who park their carts with two wheels of the cart path, yet has no compunction of flicking off his cigarette butts to the ground.

The Director of Golf at my former club would ride his cart up to the fringe of the greens late in the day when he wanted to play a few holes.  Can he say much to the teens who see him and do the same thing?

How often have we seen the grounds crew and superintendent drive heavy equipment in front of the greens and through wet spots (e.g. a work cart hauling a hand-mower parked in the front entry to the green)?  Does this have a modeling effect on the golfers who watch them?

As golfers, we all have a responsibility to look out for the best interests of the game.  This includes controversy and conflict sometimes which we are loathe to face.    

[JESII]

I was thinking more of the ruling bodies of golf, USGA, R&A, PGA, PGA TOUR, and there presentation. I am not suggesting they are the ones to gain, although they might be I would just need to see how. Rather I am wondering why they promote growth so much that it has changed the way people come into the game.

Because of the presentation, people think they will be able to master it (or at least become adept) fairly quickly. Everyone knows only a few of us are capable of that. If golf were sold as a challenge that will reward you for the rest of your life you may get less new people each year but at least they will understand the torture they have succombed to right?

[JESII]

Lou,

We were typing at the same time, thanks for that reply.

I understand the short term effects of the direction golf participation is headed and I cannot counter any of what you said any better than that. I understand it, it  sucks, but for the sake of the game would it not be better off after a couple steps backwards and then move forward again?

The education part you speak of is at the heart of my proposal. People should understand what the game is meant to provide. I don't give a damn if it's Bubba or Mortimer Hargrove IV, and especially the Pro and the course staff, education and understanding will drive the game forward and a lack of is what is driving it backwards.

[Dan King]

It's a an age old discussion. When golf moved from Scotland to England, the Scots claimed the English were bastardizing their game to make it popular with the English. When the game came to America C.B. Macdonald was a big opponent of over Americanizing the Scots game to gain popularity.

I'm in the golf business, so I should probably be arguing the reverse, but,
People should come to golf, not the other way around. Golf is a special game, but also golfers are a special breed. If you try to make the game attractive for the great unwashed masses, you will end up with courses full of great unwashed masses. I prefer my golfing companions washed.

There has been pushes to get more people into golf. That was the whole idea behind the Country Club for a Day. You get the Country Club experience with out all that other stuff attached. Golf rounds went up, and those casual golfers eventually lost interest and went and played some other game.

The future growth of golf is going to happen outside of the U.S.

Dan King

I think we should guard against being too restricted and held down by precedent and tradition. I fear that is the fault of the game on the other side. Do not let us be afraid of innovation simply because they are innovations. Nothing can come to America and stay very long without being Americanized in character; and I hope this game will be no exception to this rule. I should like to see American golf.
 --R.H. Robertson (maiden address as USGA president, 1901)

[Tom_Doak]

Nearly everyone in the business of golf worries about the growth of the game because they want to make more money.

I'm fortunate that I don't have to worry about that much.  But, what I don't want to see is the game manipulated more by Americans to make it more appealing to non-golfers.

Golf ought to grow because it is a great game on many levels.  If we ruin that, then we should all burn in hell for it.

I have no idea if the game is "growing" in Scotland or not, but I am 100% sure that it is healthier there than it ever has been here.

[Brian_Marion]

I have no idea if the game is "growing" in Scotland or not, but I am 100% sure that it is healthier there than it ever has been here.

Having never been there, how is golf viewed in Scotland vs the U.S.? Is it a pastime, a hobby, a way of life? Do golfers there tend to play more or are the golfers there more serious about the game. Are the courses smaller, cheaper, mostly public?

I always hear about how the Scots are "knowledgable" about golf and play the game as it was meant to be played. I long to travel there and see for myself but can anyone shed a bit of light on this? Maybe Americans need to take a few lessons from our Scot friends.

[BCrosby]

"People should come to golf, not the other way around."

Dan King nails it.

Bob  

[Bob_Huntley]

I've said it these columns before and I say it again. The extraordinary efforts by corporations and The First Tee programs to spoon feed youngsters with free clubs, balls and lessons will bring on expectations that cannot be fulfilled.

Where will the hundreds of thousands of young people play? When the freebies are extinguished will they have the wherewithall to pay to play?

Give me the kid that has to make a bit of a sacrifice to play the game and I will show you a golfer for life.

Several times in the past thirty years our club has tried to have a caddie program using local school children. The possibilty of earning a modest fee was not enough to keep them around. I guess it takes too many rounds to buy an I-Pod.

[A.G._Crockett]

The baby-boomers are going to start dying off with greater frequency in the coming decade.  
 

Lou,
On behalf of all the Boomers in the treehouse, could you change this to "The baby-boomers are going to start playing fewer rounds in the coming decades."  

I was hoping for the death thing to kind of sneak up on me...

[Tom_Doak]

Brian Marion:

I will never forget sitting in a small lunch place in St. Andrews in the summer of 1982, eavesdropping on four high school age girls debating what they should do with their afternoon.  They eventually decided to go play golf!

It is just a much more accessible form of recreation there than here.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tom,

May we ask if you offered an alternative to those girls?

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

I have never been that good of a salesman.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom,  that was good but I would have gone down trying lol. ie atleast tried to make it a 5some. lol

[Lou_Duran]

TD,

Accessible in Scotland because?  Culture?  Type of golf courses and expense?

What we are building here in the U.S. precludes a good portion of the population because difficulty and cost.  Who builds a course today turnkey for under $3MM?

Even cities seem much more likely to build an upscale, costly CCFAD than the traditional starter course in times past.  For every Wild Horse (built for a reported total amount of $1.5MM), there are a half dozen Tierra Verdes ($7MM+) and Texas Stars ($$$$).

Blame land and related zoning costs plus extremely heavy environmental regulation for a good part of the problem.  Point the finger toward parents who no longer take the time to raise their kids.  Consider also the competition for kids' time and attention.

I don't know that things would be that much more different in Scotland if most of their courses had been built in the last 30 to 50 years.  It would also be interesting to learn how much the health of Scottish golf is due to tourism and the ever-growing prices they are able to extract from this segment.  I hear that Ireland is pricing accordingly, and some of the better courses are getting reduced play.  Anyone with a good idea of what is happening domestically in the UK vis-a-vis golf?

Bob Huntley,

Even if First Tee has minimal immediate retention, I think it is a worthwhile program.  Exposure is beneficial and who is to say that 10 - 20 years down the road some of these kids won't pick up the game again when they have the wherewithal.  Even a seaon's worth of lessons and exposure to more civilized behavior has to have a positive effect.

A.G.,

Not to fret.  We all are living longer, though I am not sure we are doing so necessarily better.  I heard on Paul Harvey today about the rapid growth of 100 year-olds.  Hopefully, I won't get behind one of their foursomes.

Dan King,

Part of the establishment now?  And here I thought you enjoyed flying your freak flag.  Why not help wash those who might need it?  Isn't that the premise of the Left?  That it can create the "New Man" if only it was in charge?    

[Sean_A]

Tom D

Why do you think the game is healthier in Scotland than the US?

Lou

Perhaps the growth of the game in the US could do with a bit of stagnation.  Anymore American style growth may do even more damage to the game.  

Ciao

Sean

[Dan King]

Lou Duran writes:
Even cities seem much more likely to build an upscale, costly CCFAD than the traditional starter course in times past.

I think that might be part of the problem. You have cities spending millions and millions on municipal golf, making the cost of building that much higher for everyone. Cities have the advantage of spending other-peoples-money so they say cost be damned, we will float some more bonds. Can you imagine the city of Dunbar saying they need a few million pounds to fix up their golf course so it will be competitive with North Berwick? The Scots would never allow that sort of spending.

Private industry then has to compete with the cities who are spending other-peoples-money for land, contractors, supples, etc...

American tax payers were convinced they could get the free lunch, and now we are paying dearly for that.

Part of the establishment now?

I've always been a member of the establishment. (Except for that period between June 1974 and March 1975, but we don't need to go into that.)

And here I thought you enjoyed flying your freak flag.

And I enjoy flying my freak flag. Any reason the two can't go together?

Why not help wash those who might need it?

I don't wanna.

Isn't that the premise of the Left?  That it can create the "New Man" if only it was in charge?

I was thinking you must have me confused with someone else, but then came to realize you are of the impression that people who disagree with your republican opinions must be from the left. That ain't me. I'm probably much more conservative than most of those so-called righties you support.

The nature of golf is that it isn't going to appeal to everyone. It's a difficult game, one that can never be masters and it requires honesty and hard work. To appeal to a very large population you'd have to change the nature of the game. I'm not willing to do that.

Dan King

Almost cut my hair
It happened just the other day
It's gettin kinda long
I coulda said it wasn't in my way
But I didn't and I wonder why
I feel like letting my freak flag fly

Must be because I had the flu' for Christmas
And I'm not feeling up to par
It increases my paranoia
Like looking at my mirror and seeing a police car
But I'm not giving in an inch to fear
Cause I missed myself this year
 --Crosby Stills Nash Young

[Craig Van Egmond]

Dan,

      I always thought you were more of a Libertarian.   Keep waving that freak flag high!


White collar conservative flashin down the street,
Pointing that plastic finger at me,
Hoping soon my kind will drop and die,
But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high.

    * "If 6 was 9", Axis: Bold as Love (1967)  Jimi Hendrix

[David Druzisky]

good question - one that should be asked by "golf industry" insiders.  As you say there is a lot of urgent talk about how we grow the game.  Right now that question comes from those that look at golf as a business.

That might be the difference between golf in Scotland and the US.  With exception to several big touristy locations in Scotland I just don't get that feeling of entering a place of business when I arrive at a golf course. Here in the uS you cant go to the restroom without being serviced. Over there playing golf is just part of the days activities with just enough organization to point you in the right direction.  You make of it what you want and can - they do not hold your hand.

There are a lot of people passionate about the game of golf and because of that they want to work in golf.  That translates to a lot of money being distributed where there really is not that much margin to start with.

DbD

[Patrick_Mucci]

JES II,

Why does the game need to grow ?

Does growth have any impact on the intrinsic values of the game ?

[RJ_Daley]

Can the game be sold as a challenging, difficult game with significant upside benefits such as the outdoor environment (fresh air, attractive surroundings, etc...), exercise, ability to play at all ages, a system which levels the playing field for competitive purposes.

It is obvious that the economics must change to grow the game.  But, what about the culture?  The culture of the game, here in America and reportedly sliding the
american model direction in GB&I is that of woosie, cartriding, fashion conscious, business and influence seeking, status mongers, desiring validation and exclusivity.  At some level, even the muni crowd exhibit some of those traits, IMHO.

What ever happened to Dr. Alister MacKenzie's prescription to play golf for healthful and invigorating purposes?  Hardly anyone I know thinks of golf in the same manner as they think of walking on their treadmills or paddling their stationary bikes.  (I know golf isn't exactly aerobic)... But, look at all the folks chasing health and youthful vigor swallowing down vitamins and herbals, tucking skin up their craniums, pulling their tummys back to their ears, etc.  Do any of them think of golf as a means to obtain healthful invigorating activity.  Not many, I don't think.

American culture (being exported elsewhere as well), contains the virus of golf's decline, partly based on these cultural expectations driving costs up, and partly because it gets superficial and exclusivity creeps into the social aspects.

I also agree with Bob H., that the 'first tee' is not all that it is cracked up to be.  I often think it is more for the folks organizing it as another civic-socialite function to fly your own flag, than helping underprivledged kids who in the end won't be able to get into the exclusive and expensive world of golf anyway when they are old enough and on their own.  It is like soccer moms and little league or youth hockey parents.  Those youth activities are organized to a fare-thee-well, by the parents who want their kids to love them and their neighbors to admire them.  Let the kids find the game because THEY love it for competition, exercise, and invigorating mind-body-fellowship stimulation.

[Tom_Doak]

One big difference between golf in America and elsewhere is the issue of time.

Again, I've been reading all the various essays on immigration here and in Europe, and one of the things they talk about is the work week -- Americans (me included) keep working more and more hours to (choose one) be more productive / make more money, while the French work 30 hours a week and take August off.

How does this translate to golf?  Americans don't have time to play, and don't know how to enjoy their leisure in general.  They race around the course in carts and it still takes them an hour longer to play 18 holes than Scots who are taking their time!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()