[ForkaB]

Dan J

I played hockey when I was a kid and was a decent player, but opted for basketball as my primary winter sport, because it was a greater (see John K above) and more challenging game (particularly to a shrimp like me!).  Hockey is a step (sic) above Rollerball, but not a very big step........

[Jim Nugent]

Rich,

If you’re looking for the most difficult game to play, ice hockey should be right at the top.  Any good athlete can pick up baseball, football, soccer, basketball or most other sports and be descent at a low level.  But take a good athlete that has never skated before and have him play hockey where one has to pass, skate, stickhandle and shoot all at a pace much faster than most any other sport.  Give blood, play hockey.

Yes, hockey requires that you skate.  But is that a measure of the sport's difficulty?  If so, water polo may take the crown.  If you can't swim, it's not just hard.  You die!  

[ForkaB]

Amen, Jim

I played two proper games of water polo in my life and each one was a near death experience.

[RJ_Daley]

Which sport has the most "cross over" athletes playing it with great passion?  No, I don't mean Renee Richards either.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dan King,

In bocce, the playing field never varies nor is the wind much of a factor, and courts are hard to find.

How many of you claiming that sports other than golf are the greatest, play them currently ? Play them at all ?

Have you noticed that many of the great athletes from other sports love golf, yet few of these world class athletes can master it.

[David_Elvins]

Pat Mucci,

The playing field of Bocce varies as much as Golf.  I have seen it played in a parkland setting, a heathland setting, a sandy setting, in the city and in the countryside.  In my experience it is rarely played on formal courts.


As for the original question,  like Michael Moore, I think that the fact that 95% of the world's population is too poor to play golf  counts against it, but I struggle to find a sprot as counter argument.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Jim Nugent nails it - there is no correct answer to the question, and it's not really a helpful question to ask, because it encourages people to take sides rather than appreciate the qualities inherent in each game (or sport). In the last few weeks I've read items on various sport-themed websites where it has been taken for granted that baseball, or soccer, or college football is the greatest sport on earth, and the smug overtone of each made me want to retch. Saying that golf is a great game should be enough, shouldn't it? Trying to say that it or anything else is "the greatest game" (as opposed to the far less provocative and far more intellectually honest "my favorite game") is likely to encourage self-centered navel-gazing and a fundamental elitism.

Cheers,
Darren

[Andy Troeger]

Darren,
   Lets be realistic here. Those people who think golf is the "greatest game"  do so because it is their favorite game (one would think at least). If you don't like the wording of the question feel free to address the more "intellectually honest" favorite game issue.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ah Water polo what a hoot.  Until you have played you have no idea how much 'stuff' is going on.  The spectators and officials have no hope of seeing the flying fists and the elbows once all the splashing starts. Most players are expert at sinking at will in the hope of being given a penalty.

I hadn't been playing long when I was asked to referee the last quarter of a training game by the team captain.  I pointed out that I had know idea if there were any rules at all!  He quickly explained how you do it.  Each team wears either a blue or a white hat. The referee carries a stick with a blue flag at one end and a white one at the other. Together with a loud whistle this stick is his only means of communicating with the players.   He said the only way to referee was to twirl this stick in your hand as you prowl the waters edge. When you know ‘something is going on’ between two players blow the whistle and hold the stick up.  When you glance at the top flag you’ve awarded the penalty to that team.

However for near death sports in water can I commend Octopush to you?  This is a cross between water polo and ice hockey played on the bottom of the pool. True you have the advantages of mask, snorkel and flippers but this sport is played whilst holding you breath.  The object is to propel a lead puck across the tiles into the opponents goal using only a small hand tool.  To my knowledge no one has yet built a pool specifically for this sport so the team playing toward the deep end has a distinct advantage for two of the quarters.  This means the other team tries to defend by blocking the attackers and as shots are physically impossible the puck has to be forced accross the line.  However pity the defender who collects the puck once a scrum has been formed.  Half out of breath he then has to make for the shallow end of the pool, pushing this puck uphill whilst the pack return to the surface, breath and (because it’s faster on the surface) they are certain to overtake him.  So this guy will be caught just as he’s literally run out of puff and he will be trapped against the base of the pool as a new scrum forms all around him.  It’s not unusual to be stuck there for another minute as the players above you fight for the puck. Communications from officials is impossible so their sole role is to count score and the rest of the time anything goes.

Oh happy days.

[Michael Moore]

How many of you claiming that sports other than golf are the greatest, play them currently ? Play them at all ?

I currently play soccer and coach it as well.

I admire you for playing full contact sports at the age that you did.

How many of you claiming that the ball goes too far play the very-easy-to-find-on-Ebay Titleist Professional?

[John Kirk]

Pat,

I can't play basketball anymore.  I'm 47 with an osteoarthritic knee and deformed feet.  I have to work pretty hard to stay healthy enough to walk the golf course, a higher priority.  Nevertheless, temptation overcomes me now and then, and I'll go run around with the kids about 3-5 hours per year, always full court.  Each hour played requires 2-5 days to recover.  Ouch!  But the way my body feels for those few hours after playing is sublime.

I think athletes in other sports take to golf well.  Two of my best friends, both scratch players, were all-state baseball and basketball players, respectively, in a previous life.  I played college basketball, and now play in the low single digits.

It used to be that tall people were considered to have a physical handicap that prevented them excelling at golf, but I think that's a myth.  I recently caddied in a match for the same basketball friend against the former professional baseball player Erik Hanson, a 15 year major league pitcher.  He is very tall, 6-6 or so, and an excellent player, maybe a +2 or something like that.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat Mucci,

The playing field of Bocce varies as much as Golf.  I have seen it played in a parkland setting, a heathland setting, a sandy setting, in the city and in the countryside.  In my experience it is rarely played on formal courts.

Then you have limited experience.

Bocce Courts have fairly fixed dimensions, 60" X 8".

Courts are groomed and meant to be as flat as possible, on either natural or prepared surfaces.

To compare the terrain and configuration of Bocce courts to a golf course and tell us that the playing field in Bocce varies as much as a golf course is inaccurate at best.[/color]

As for the original question,  like Michael Moore, I think that the fact that 95% of the world's population is too poor to play golf  counts against it, but I struggle to find a sprot as counter argument.

Andy Troeger didn't ask if it was the most popular game.
He asked if it was the greatest game and there is a distinction.[/color]

[George Pazin]

Gotta second John Kirk here. If I had my druthers, I'd be the next Mound of Rebound, rather than the only mound of rebound who stands 5' 9".

My favorite 2 statements in sports are:

1) "Tomorrow I own the paint." - David Robinson, center at Navy, upon reading the editorial of a Syracuse sportswriter, opining as to why no one would turn out to watch Syracuse play a team they had destroyed 3 months prior. David prevailed.

2) "The meek may inherit the earth, but they won't get the ball." - Charles Barkley, Nike ad. Yeah, I know it's ad copy, but it was my motto throughout college. If only I were 7 inches taller and had some real athletic ability.

I do love golf. Can't really explain why, other than the feeling I get when I hit a shot right. But it's not the same as when I played hoops on a regular basis (even though I never really played competitively for real - i.e. organized and recognized, mostly just playground ball).

You hockey lovers are just biased.

And soccer is just basketball for short people who lack hand eye coordination.

And I don't believe Paul Turner sucks at chess, he probably just plays people who are as obsessed with chess as he is with Colt.

[George Pazin]

An interesting and related question that I debate with my Dad and there was once a thread on is the question: Is golf a sport or game?

Don't know how long you've been onboard, but there have been some interesting discussions on this relative to Max Behr's philosophy of games versus sports. I'd suggest searching the archives, or contacting Scott Burroughs, who seems to find everything at the drop of a hat.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Darren,
   Lets be realistic here. Those people who think golf is the "greatest game"  do so because it is their favorite game (one would think at least). If you don't like the wording of the question feel free to address the more "intellectually honest" favorite game issue.

I like lots of games and sports - the latter includes golf, baseball, American football, soccer, cricket and snooker (which I think is just about a sport and not a game). Each has its own different merits, and my favorite at any given moment fluctuates, often as a result of experiences I've had with diffferent sports whether watching or playing them (for better or worse).

I made my original point because this question is not rational - i.e. you simply cannot deduce through rational argument which sport is the greatest, simply because every sports fan will approach this discussion with hugely varying ideas about what makes one sport "better" than another. So this discussion has to automatically go in one of two directions: either everyone has different values, in which case you have a bunch of different sports nominated and no real consensus forms (which may lead to shared discussions of certain sports but is otherwise likely to become a "discussion" of disconnected monologues), or many people have shared values - understandably, on a golf-themed website - and the consensus is likely that golf will be judged the greatest game, which might engender a lot of smug back-slapping and me-too-ism but will not have proved anything except that a bunch of golf course architecture fans like golf.

Disconnected monologue over.  

Cheers,
Darren

[Andy Troeger]

Darren...I really couldn't have cared less if it was a rational question. There are many discussions here and elsewhere that aren't rational!  

I'm actually surprised on this site that there have been as many plugs for other sports as there have. My interest with this topic...is for people who love golf and think its their favorite game or the greatest game or whatever you want to call it, WHY? We all have our reasons, and that's what makes golf great. Obviously there's never going to be a consensus...who cares. Its the reasoning behind the whole thing that interested me

[Steve Wilson]

What is bocce but lawn bowling with an accent, and P. G. Wodehouse had the last word(s) on this contention:


From "The Awakening of Rollo Podmarsh"


     Down on the new bowling green behind the club-house some sort of competition was in progress.  The seats above the smooth strip of turf were crowded, and the weak-minded yapping of the patients made itself plainly audible to the Oldest Member as he sat in his favourite chair in the smoking room.  He shifted restlessly, and a frown marred the placidity of his venerable brow.  To the Oldest Member a golf-club was a golf-club, and he resented the introduction of any alien element.  He had opposed the institution of tennis-courts; and the suggestion of a bowling-green had stirred him to his depths.

     A young man in a spectacles came into the smoking-room.  His high forehead was aglow, and he lapped up a ginger-ale with the air of one who considers that he has earned it.
     "Capital exercise!" he said beaming upon the Oldest Member.
     The Oldest Member laid down his "Vardon On Casual Water" and pered suspiciously at his companion.
      "What did you go round in?" he asked.
     "Oh, I wasn't playing golf,"  said the young man.  "Bowls."
     "A nauseous pursuit!" said the Oldest Member, coldly, and resumed his reading.
     The young man seemed nettled.
     "I don't know why you should say that," he retorted.  "It's a splendid game."
     "I rank it," said the Oldest Member, "with the juvenile pastime of marbles."
     The young man pondered for some moments.
     "Well, anyway," he said at length, "it was good enough for Drake."
     "As I have not the pleasure of the acquaintance of your friend Drake, I am unable to estimate the value of his endorsement."
     "The 'Drake.'  The Spanish Armada Drake.  He was playing bowls on Plymough Hoe when they told him the Armada was in sight.  'There is time to finish the game,' he replied.  That's what Drake thought of bowls."
     "If he had been a golfer he would have ignored the Armada altogether."
 
    Who can dispute the Oldest Member speaking through the medium of Pelham Greville (Plum) Wodehouse.  Or is it the other way around.

   Perhaps we should have a contest here--who fulfills the role of Oldest Member.  I think I have the perfect candidate in mind, but I'll let others chime in if they see fit.

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