News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« on: September 27, 2005, 12:41:56 PM »
The Dunhill Links Championship is played this week here in Scotland.
So far, NOT ONE big-name US player has been announced as playing.
With the BIGGEST prize fund in European golf ($5 million!), what is the problem?
Surely not the after-effects of 7/7?

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Scott Witter

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2005, 12:46:57 PM »
Martin,

Wait just a minute here! No BIG NAME U.S. players, I beg to differ...I remember seeing a thread recently where Tom Doak noted that he was playing in the Dunhill Cup this week.

Well, there you go.  Oops, wrong part of the industry!

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2005, 12:47:22 PM »
another million to the likes of Tiger or Phil is really not that important, i would guess, increidble as that seems to working stiffs like me

I wonder how high the first prize would have to be to truly get their attention:  5 million?  10 million?  what?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2005, 12:48:19 PM »
Scott,
funnily enough, as I typed that very phrase, I KNEW someone would pick me up for it! ;D

FBD
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2005, 12:52:41 PM »
I simply can't see what Dunhill get out of the whole deal. Okay, some (not lots) of free-ish media, but surely not enough to justify blowing $5 million of the marketing budget on one event?

Two other points:
They don't even charge for entry thursday thru saturday...
and
the event is only shown on Sky TV (limited audience...)

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2005, 01:02:38 PM »
FBD -

Isn't the Dunhill the European equivalent to the Crosby (AT&T) Clambake?  Celebrities, team event, travelling across the pond from the President's Cup, then back again for the AmEx ... sounds like a few good reasons not to attend ...

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2005, 01:38:33 PM »
Martin:

I will post back next week and tell you what I thought of playing in the event, but everyone I have met so far (amateurs not the pros) is just happy to be here in St. Andrews for a week and visiting with friends from the years before.  It has much more the feel of the old Bing Crosby tournament than the AT&T corporate schmooze ... essentially it is a big party for Johann Rupert and friends.

Ernie Els is a great friend of Johann's and always comes to play if he's not injured, and that usually draws a bit better field.  Most of the European pros here are thinking about keeping their cards because it's the last official event on the calendar.  Very few of the American pros are interested in coming over for a week and then heading home, irrespective of the money involved, and can you blame them? ... the jet lag and the cool weather are likely to put them off for a couple of weeks afterward, and the money doesn't count toward their own tour earnings.  Plus, pro-ams are generally a lot more fun for the amateurs than for the pros, especially if they are grinding away with next season's status at stake.

Perhaps one of these years the Amex tournament will be over here the week after the Dunhill, and they will get a strong American contingent.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2005, 02:05:29 PM »
Tom,

Have a great time! What a neat opportunity.

jeffmingay.com

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2005, 02:48:29 PM »
Martin
My feelings are split , I wasnt a huge fan of the Old Format but it was much better than what we have presently .

Yet , I enjoy the three course format . I always seem to have time on my hands at this time of year , and the choice of 3 venues to watch some golf is fantastic.

Made a jaunt down the road to Carnoustie today . I think I was the only spectator , and not many golfers either , never mind 'names' .

The course still looks awfully green to me ! .

It was sunny but extremely breezy and it was blowing straight down the 6th . As usual it was great fun standing watching pros. play this hole . It amazed me how many young golfers have yet to understand the term "Under the Wind" .

So where to tomorrow ? , Kingsbarns , Old Course or easier to get to Carnoustie again ? .

Where is that Mr Doak going to be ? .

Brian




Phil_the_Author

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2005, 02:56:03 PM »
For those who want to keep track:

Thursday at St. Andrews at 09:00 in group #1:

   ANDREW OLDCORN and Tom Doak

Phil_the_Author

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2005, 03:15:46 PM »
Forget that there are no great American pros, by the way, you forget that Fultom Allen is playing, what is most dissapointing is why isn't SAMUEL L. JACKSON playing this year. A highlight of many a Dunhill, last year I enjoyed listening to an old couple watching him practice shots at Kingsbarns talking the entire time about how short he was hitting hit and how they thought he looked much taller in person. They were disaapointed because they thought that VIJAI SINGH "was a much better player!" (And where is he this year?)

Among the great pairings that make the Dunhill worth attending:

RICHARD STERNE and Tucker Frederickson for all you Alabama football fans.

COSTANTINO ROCCA and Charles R. Schwab for all who want to know who those who manage our money turn to for advice.

The foursome of GONZALO FERNANDEZ-CASTANO and Beltrán Gómez-Acebo Y De   Borbón and FRANCESCO MOLINARI and Edoardo Molinari for those who speak Spanish.

The group of MADS VIBE-HASTRUP and Stephen Posford followed by JACO VAN ZYL and Paul Spengler followed an hour & 5 minutes later by DES TERBLANCHE and Brand de Villiers and MIGUEL ANGEL MARTIN and Francois van der Merwe
for those who just want to hear the starter try to say their names.

COLIN MONTGOMERIE and Michael Douglas for those who want to follow 2 old farts  ;D

IAN WOOSNAM and Ian Botham for those who want to watch as the phrase "Ian, you're away" is said.

IAN WOOSNAM and Ian Botham for those who want to bow before every shot played.

But my favorite foursome is the 9AM group at Carnoustie of
EDUARDO ROMERO and John O'Hurley. John is what Bill Murray would love to be. It will be interesting to see how well Romero can concentrate with his very dry humor running rampant.

Phil_the_Author

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2005, 03:17:40 PM »
By the way Martin, who's Doak's caddy at Kingsbarns? Are you carrying this week? Say hi to Jerry for me.


Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2005, 04:36:56 PM »
Brian,
surely you've been playing with the green filter in Photoshop!! I've never seen Carnoustie look quite so - 'American'!!!

Philip,
good to hear from you. When's the book due? Did I miss the publication somehow?

I'm not sure who'll be caddying for Tom. If he's reading this and is playing KB on saturday and would like the services of one of the best loopers there, then I'm available!! ;)

How boring it might be for his playing partners though:

TD:"Gee, Martin, what do you think of the way that Agrostis tenuis merges with the Festuca rubra commutata over there in the primary dune slack by the false-fronted green complex?"

MB:"Well, Tom, I'm not so sure that it might have been better trying a stolonifera/longifolia mix right there. Now THAT would have looked good as a foil against the revetted bunker face!"

Unfortunately, this year, I've only been helping them out up there when they've been really busy - and only at weekends (went and got a stoopid real job!). Now I'm gonna have to PAY for the pleasure of playing there!!

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2005, 08:29:04 PM »
Tom Doak, since Tip Anderson is no longer available,  Marty has got to be the GCA.com insider secret weapon. If you pick Marty, I'm going to bet the farm on your pro-am to win.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2005, 01:38:29 AM »
Tom, have a great time for I am some jealous. I am actually missing the fresh golf air of St. Andrews. We will be rooting for you.

ForkaB

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2005, 02:27:05 AM »
I find the Dunhill increasingly interesting.  The main plusses are:

1.  Three of the best courses in the world as venues (easily trumps the ATT/Crosby in this regard).
2.  Incredibly accessible.  Because the Brits seem to have an aversion to the event, you can spectate on the first 3 days for FREE, and you can get very close to the players and celebs, as there is hardly anybody else out there watching.
3.  "Traditional" Scottish weather is likely in late Sept/early Oct--great to watch the great players show why they are great by playing in the rain and the wind).

The wind is really up this week in Fife, and I hope it continues (without the rain) for the next 5 days.  I'll get to see some great and funky golf shots if I'm lucky!

PS--Doak is off first on the Old Course.  Now that's pressure...... ;)

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2005, 03:53:20 AM »
FBD - I don't think Tom would hold it against you if you first offered your services to Ines Sastre. ;) I can't see her name in the draw but she features prominently on the celebrities page.

Apparently there are 20 members of Queenwood golf club teeing it up at the event - no doubt in part related to Johann Rupert being a member.

I am also told that many (most?) of the amateurs pay to play in the event - the two figures mentioned being £7,500 and £15,000. I am sure the "true" celebs, and Rupert's special guests don't pay, but seems like the rest of them are reaching in their pockets. A quick perusal of some of the names would suggest that for most/all of them, £15,000 barely qualifies as small change.

Maybe someone with time on their hands can try and work out what the collective net worth of all the amateurs is. There is a healthy sprinkling of billionaires in there.

Many of the pros are pretty well off, but they must feel pretty poor next to Dermot Desmond, Bob Greenhill, Charles Schwab, Goulandris, Julian Robertson jr etc.

THuckaby2

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2005, 11:03:19 AM »
1.  Three of the best courses in the world as venues (easily trumps the ATT/Crosby in this regard).

Hmmmm....
TOC, Carnoustie, Kingsbarns v. Pebble, Spyglass, Poppy Hills.

Trumps yes.  "Easily" trumps, no.  That's pretty close.

And make the lineup back what it was when it was the Crosby, and the trumping goes in the other direction.

 ;)

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2005, 11:16:16 AM »
wooooo.... whose your caddie?

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2005, 11:57:18 AM »
Rich I am with you except on the easily trumps part. I actually have problems with the word trump being used in a golf discussion. I really feel the over all course may be btter but the Crosby has great courses to play on as well.

Will Hubbard

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2005, 12:09:06 PM »
Huck,

For those of us less "seasoned"  ;D viewers what were the old Crosby courses, besides PB?

Hubbs

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 12:23:13 PM »
wooooo.... whose your caddie?



Uncle Dick,
wee Dunhill 2004 story.

Last year, I pick up my golfer at the caddyshack and we wander to the practice area.
We squeeze in beside some folks there and my man starts talking to the chap in the next bay. He's clearly an american and is kinda old, wrinkly, small, short, goatee-bearded...

So it's all: "hi, how are you?"
"good, you playing well?"
kind of stuff and all the usual pleasantries...

I'm standing there, making eye contact with this bloke, smiling at some of their jokes, etc, etc,

then

my guy says something like:

"Okay, Michael, we better get on and practice a little".

It was Michael Douglas. I didn't even recognise him. Let me tell you - the Camera DEFINITELY LIES!!!

As always,
your adoring,
Nephew Marty.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

ForkaB

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2005, 12:38:55 PM »
Will

Cypress Point used to be in the Crosby rota, before the PGAT decided that clubs needed to subscribe to post-Shoal Creek membership policies.  CPC declined and so we got Poppy Hills as a replacement.

Tom and Tiger

I have only two words for you:  Poppy Hills! (rhymes with Poppycock!). :)


Will Hubbard

Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2005, 01:08:08 PM »
Rich,
Thanks, i figured but was not sure.  Having seen the Scottish courses but not those in Cali, I am inclined to side with your opinion.
Will
I love watching the Dunhill, just to relive my visits to Scotland vicariously and to compare my play with the pros and amateurs.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Is the Dunhill a waste of time?
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2005, 01:21:46 PM »
Who cares if the Americans aren't going to be there? I'd rather watch great courses with unknown pros than the pedestrian courses of the PGA.

I've always wondered at what point the bloom is off the rose. I've read many a story about how so and so left after missing the cut at The Open. Heck, Jack did it this year. I guess it's totally different if golf is your life. I'd love to hang around and spectate. Similarly, you'd think once you made your millions on the PGA Tour, you'd be more likely to head overseas to play in an event like The Dunhill. Instead, the top pros seem to save their overseas trips for the big guaranteed paydays like The Dubai Desert Classic.

It's a problem I'll never have to worry about. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04