New bunkering at Atlantic

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I was playing  in a tournament this week and the topic of fall golf course work seemed to floating around.  Quite significant work at Stanwich among others.  Most intriguiging is that Rees is invovled in an overall overhall of the bunkering at Atlantic.   Some holes have been finished and supposedly the new bunkering will change how the holes play.  Has anyone seen the course since this started?  I have a feeling that Friars Head may be the reason for this.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Robert,
  Why do you feel that Friar's is the reason? I've always thought that Atlantic would look better with Rees newer style bunkers, anything is better than his circle bunkers.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Tom_Doak]

A lot of people were interviewed for that work at Atlantic ... basically everyone not directly working for an established architect, including some of Bill Coore's guys and Tom Mead who used to work for me.  In the end, though, I guess they did the work without those guys to keep the peace with Rees ... I don't know who was on the equipment but it was none of the guys I mentioned.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Good for Bobby-Atlantic wouldn't be what it is without him...some of the finest conditions in America. Anyone have any pics of the new bunkers?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brad Klein,

Let's not forget Rick Hartmann, who's an integral component with respect to things that go on at Atlantic.

He, Bobby, Lowell and others form an exceptional team and as a result of their efforts Atlantic will only get better.

Anthony,

I would say that Friar's Head had some influence, but the impetus for moving in that direction started pre Friar's Head.

[NAF]

Robert-

What is Stanwich doing-- I know Tom Fazio is supposedly doing the work.. A former work colleague is on the Golf Committee there and I met up with him a few weeks ago.. He told me they were very upset with their rankings in Connecticut and in the US (I think they used to be on several lists potentially)..

[corey miller]

I have never seen the club but do find it a little funny that a guy builds a top 100 course fairly recently, and then is not consulted when other's decide to make changes.

Have tastes changed that much in ten years?  Isn't this the same thinking that ruined many classic era courses?  

[Mike_Cirba]

Corey,

You bring up a good point.  Perhaps in some strange, distant future, odd beings with geometrically circular-shaped heads and linear body forms will decide that Rees's shaping was actually presciently before its time, that he was a design genius, and will start a new appreciation society to preserve and forever admire his work.  If his groundwork and premier designs are changed now, that happy eventuality can never occur.  

I'm curious...how many bunkers that Rees built, redesigned, or "restored" over the past 15 years are recently or presently being re-worked?  Quite a number....

[corey miller]

I personally know of about 100 Rees bunkers that are being changed.  I certainly do not care for the style, but the great majority of changes over the years to classic courses were to "improve" the course in the minds of the power structure.  

Once we start applauding some changes and mocking others we open the door to the belief that most places can be "improved".  We then wind up with the desecrations that have taken place over many years.

[ChipRoyce]

I like the direction the thread is going. Looks like the "Open Doctor's" style is finally attracting a more critical look than was given when he recieved free reign to make changes at Bethpage, et.al.

Hopefully the result of all of this is that folks will go back to Bethpage and re-restore the bunkering to a more faithful presentation of Tillinghast's work than what was accomplished under Rees' efforts.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I have never seen the club but do find it a little funny that a guy builds a top 100 course fairly recently, and then is not consulted when other's decide to make changes.

Have tastes changed that much in ten years?  Isn't this the same thinking that ruined many classic era courses?  

You first statement is inaccurate.
Hence, I wouldn't continue a discussion that has a flawed premise as its foundation.[/color]

[corey miller]

In that case I am very happy that Rees was consulted.  That is the way it should be.

[Michael Moore]

Here some photos that someone sent to me.

Personally, I would like to see "before" represented with better lighting, better camera angles, and a greater variety of subjects, but I hope this helps the discussion.

BEFORE





AFTER

[Mike_Cirba]

My lord!

Rees's art has been defaced!!!!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Redanman,

Why do you call it an invention, the third according to you ?

Ross labored and tinkered with Pinehurst # 2 for 26 years.
MacDonald labored and tinkered for years on end at NGLA.
What's so different about Atlantic ?

Brad Klein,

The golf course always had Fescue, it just had too much bluegrass.

Bobby Rannum is one of the best, but, he's not alone in the quest for improving the golf course.  It's far more of a team approach
Rick Hartmann, Dick Gilbert, Bob Morrow, Lowell Shulman and others have continued to strive for improving Atlantic, and they're doing a very good job.

Michael Moore & Brand Klein,

The pictures are taken from different angles and misleading,
The bunker in the first picture bears no relationship to the bunker pictured in the last picture.

Let's not try to do a total hatchet job on Rees.

The first picture is not the before picture to all of the other bunkers.   The bunker pictured in photos 2 and 3 is the rightside fairway bunker on the 3rd hole taken from the lower fairway approach.   The bunker in the first picture could be the previous right side fairway bunker, but it looks like it was taken from above the bunker, thus not the same presentation that meets the golfers eye.

Mike Cirba,

That's right, jump on the bandwagon of bashers from the viewpoint of an outsider who's not seen the golf course and who knows nothing about what's going on at Atlantic.

The changes to the golf course are considerable.

Over many years the thining or eradication of the bluegrass has taken place.  
Rectangular tees replaced free formed tees and a good number of holes were lengthened, vis a vis the extension or creation of tees while preserving the angles of attack..  Mounding was also muted.  Next, a bunker project that was begun in the last year or two should be completed in the next year or two.

In addition, some other dramatic changes are planned and will probably be implemented in the next 2-3 years.
These changes will result in the continuing improvement of Atlantic.  It remains a work in progress.

The condition of the course is impressive.
The playing surfaces are exceptional.
The wind remains a constant asset.

I wouldn't be surprised if Atlantic hosts a tournament of note in the future.  It keeps getting better.  And ALL of those associated with the continuing effort to improve the golf course should be congratulated.
 [/color]

[jeffwarne]

Now that The Bridge is ranked ahead of Atlantic by GOLF Magazine, is Rees going to be called back to Atlantic for a Reestoration(or is that Reesnovation?) to emulate the bunker styles at The Bridge?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeffwarne,

I doubt The Bridge has any influence over what happens at Atlantic.

There has been and continues to be a cadre of members at Atlantic who want to continue to improve the golf course in conjunction with Bobby Rannum and Rick Hartmann.

There are some substantive changes on the agenda that will continue to improve the golf course.

[jeffwarne]

Patrick,

As you know I was joking.

I would say The Bridge has had absolutely no influence over the changes at Atlantic.

The cadre of members and staff at Atlantic have indeed done a wonderful job of providing the impetus for positive change at Atlantic...and will continue to do so.

but to say they have not been influenced by nearby courses-some new,some old--would be naive.

By the way your prediction  is quite accurate.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeffwarne,

I didn't say they hadn't been influenced by courses in the area, only that they hadn't been influenced by The Bridge.

Atlantic is an example of a club that has combined a cadre of interested members with their exceptional professionals to form a team that continues to improve the golf course.

Good things are about to happen there.

[Michael Moore]

Pat -

I posted those photographs with the following reservations, exclusively.

"Personally, I would like to see 'before' represented with better lighting, better camera angles, and a greater variety of subjects, but I hope this helps the discussion."

Thus, it is extremely annoying to have you lecture me on doing a "hatchet job".

Did that disclaimer mean anything to you? Why do you engage in willful ignorance?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I posted those photographs with the following reservations, exclusively.

"Personally, I would like to see 'before' represented with better lighting, better camera angles, and a greater variety of subjects, but I hope this helps the discussion."

Thus, it is extremely annoying to have you lecture me on doing a "hatchet job".

Did that disclaimer mean anything to you? Why do you engage in willful ignorance?

If you read my post carefully you would have seen that I addressed the salutation to you and Brad, understanding that you were the passive medium or conduit.

Maybe you should reconsider your roll as a messenger or flunkie. You know what traditionally happens to them.
Or, you could chalk it up to being one of the ignorant unindicted co-conspirators [/color]

[T_MacWood]

Maybe you should reconsider your roll as a messenger or flunkie. You know what traditionally happens to them.
Or, you could chalk it up to being one of the ignorant unindicted co-conspirators [/color]

One of the more ironic posts in recent history.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MacWood,

Have you played Atlantic pre and post the current work ?

Or, is this just another course that you've never seen, that you posture and promote yourself as an expert on ?

Give credit where credit is due.

Atlantic continues to improve, and, I"m not on the golf panels that voted Atlantic in the top 100 before the recent improvements.

Are all of those panelists messengers too ?

I've heard that the long distance views are never clear from the Ivory tower you reside in, when you're not camped out in the library.

Field experience is invalueable, you should try it.