Where in the World?

[Matthew Hunt]

As the British armed forces reform apperently they are looking to sell off some of their more remote Northern Ireland and Scottish bases. Some of these would allow 36 or 54 holes of golf on really links land near to existing high profile courses and there is enough houses for soliders you would be able to replace them with nicer short stay villas for golfers under replacemnt dwelling rules. Rumour has it that Trump was looking to take advantage of this, but in the current climate I am pretty sure both the NI and Scottish goverment wouldn't support anything he had his finger in, but they would be hugely supportive of anything with Jobs for rural areas. 

[Joel_Stewart]

I'll steal an idea from Jeff Lewis who said Isreal is ideal with huge sand dunes and on the water. Furthermore they only have 1 golf course.

In the U.S. I believe the opportunity is there to buy an existing resort or golf course that has been disappointing and renovate it.

[JWL]

TD
I saw where you said you had a plan for St. Patricks pending development funds.   Just curious, is your plan for 18 or 36 holes.
I was really intrigued by the possibilities of that site....Sheephaven Bay.....fantastic site.   Not sure if it can support 2 great courses, but there is certainly one out there imho.  Certainly one of the very best sites I have trampled around on.   HNY!

[Tom_Doak]

I'll steal an idea from Jeff Lewis who said Isreal is ideal with huge sand dunes and on the water. Furthermore they only have 1 golf course.

Several years ago I had a call from someone who wanted to build a course in those dunes.


I was trying to figure out if it was safe to send my associates over to Israel to work, so I got in touch with the first person I could think of who knows the Middle East:  Thomas Friedman, the NY Times columnist who also writes occasionally for GOLF DIGEST.  His response was that it would be a great place to work, but to check and see if the land was within mortar range of the Gaza strip.


So, there is some great land waiting for such a project.  All you've gotta do is bring peace to the Middle East!

[MClutterbuck]

I'll steal an idea from Jeff Lewis who said Isreal is ideal with huge sand dunes and on the water. Furthermore they only have 1 golf course.

Several years ago I had a call from someone who wanted to build a course in those dunes.


I was trying to figure out if it was safe to send my associates over to Israel to work, so I got in touch with the first person I could think of who knows the Middle East:  Thomas Friedman, the NY Times columnist who also writes occasionally for GOLF DIGEST.  His response was that it would be a great place to work, but to check and see if the land was within mortar range of the Gaza strip.


So, there is some great land waiting for such a project.  All you've gotta do is bring peace to the Middle East!

Some bunkers are carved out naturally by sheep and erosion, others by mortar rounds...


The Buenos Aires coast some day Tom. As you said, long term vision/capital and land that can house development away from the golf course with access to the beach.

[Thomas Dai]

As the British armed forces reform apperently they are looking to sell off some of their more remote Northern Ireland and Scottish bases. Some of these would allow 36 or 54 holes of golf on really links land near to existing high profile courses and there is enough houses for soliders you would be able to replace them with nicer short stay villas for golfers under replacemnt dwelling rules. Rumour has it that Trump was looking to take advantage of this, but in the current climate I am pretty sure both the NI and Scottish goverment wouldn't support anything he had his finger in, but they would be hugely supportive of anything with Jobs for rural areas.

Ex-British forces bases, training grounds etc, just what I was getting at in the recent thread about potential sites around GB and NI - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,62304.0.html


As to elsewhere, how about around Punta del Este, Uruguay and the coastal areas of neighbouring southern Brazil, Rio Grande do Sol, being the states name. Very sandy coastal areas and P del E is supposed to be a monied kind of place - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-31.328656,-53.5648553,7z/data=!3m1!1e3


Atb

[Doug Siebert]

Some bunkers are carved out naturally by sheep and erosion, others by mortar rounds...

Buried unexploded rounds could make it a real penalty to hit a wild drive. With my game I think I'd pass playing that course, even if Tom said it was his best design ever! 

[Tim Gallant]

I can't say to be an expert in the sand-type required to build a course, but two years ago, I drove by a parcel of land, and like Field of Dreams, I could see a course there. It was the land close to Provincetown on Cape Cod, south of the town between the sea and the East Harbor. The dunes seemed to rise and fall in majestic forms.


Anyone know this land and if it could be used for a golf course (Permits aside)?

[Thomas Dai]

As a follow-up to reading a thread about Bandon, I looked at Google Sat Map and followed the US coast all the way north from Bandon to the Canadian border.


Soooo much sandy terrain and sooo many seaside communities the size and kind of which in GB & I or in somewhere like Aussie would probably have their own golf courses.........and yet there were so few courses on the map, seemingly not even low spec, low maintenance ones or 9-holers. Amazing.


Any suggestions as to why?


Atb

[Kalen Braley]

As a follow-up to reading a thread about Bandon, I looked at Google Sat Map and followed the US coast all the way north from Bandon to the Canadian border.


Soooo much sandy terrain and sooo many seaside communities the size and kind of which in GB & I or in somewhere like Aussie would probably have their own golf courses.........and yet there were so few courses on the map, seemingly not even low spec, low maintenance ones or 9-holers. Amazing.


Any suggestions as to why?


Atb

Thomas,

You shoulda gone the other way too, south to the Mexican border....the coastline is littered with fantastic areas to put courses in...

The reason why?  One word.....

Regulations!

[Thomas Dai]

Kalen,


Thanks for this.


When did regulations start to be imposed?


I'm just surprised courses just didn't happen in days gone by, back before regulations, which is the way things seemed to have evolved in the UK, or was the population etc in the areas not sufficient enough or interested enough to even allow low spec, low maint golf?


Just curious really, the way the game has or hasn't spread or evolved.


Thanks.




Atb

[Ronald Montesano]

I can't say to be an expert in the sand-type required to build a course, but two years ago, I drove by a parcel of land, and like Field of Dreams, I could see a course there. It was the land close to Provincetown on Cape Cod, south of the town between the sea and the East Harbor. The dunes seemed to rise and fall in majestic forms.


Anyone know this land and if it could be used for a golf course (Permits aside)?

Due south of Provincetown is water, since Provincetown is out on the hook. Where exactly do you mean? I love that area but know that the dunes are protected.

[Bill_McBride]

I can't say to be an expert in the sand-type required to build a course, but two years ago, I drove by a parcel of land, and like Field of Dreams, I could see a course there. It was the land close to Provincetown on Cape Cod, south of the town between the sea and the East Harbor. The dunes seemed to rise and fall in majestic forms.


Anyone know this land and if it could be used for a golf course (Permits aside)?

Due south of Provincetown is water, since Provincetown is out on the hook. Where exactly do you mean? I love that area but know that the dunes are protected.

Actually P'town is the northern tip of the north-south arm of the cape.  Water is east and west.

[Tim Gallant]

I can't say to be an expert in the sand-type required to build a course, but two years ago, I drove by a parcel of land, and like Field of Dreams, I could see a course there. It was the land close to Provincetown on Cape Cod, south of the town between the sea and the East Harbor. The dunes seemed to rise and fall in majestic forms.


Anyone know this land and if it could be used for a golf course (Permits aside)?

Due south of Provincetown is water, since Provincetown is out on the hook. Where exactly do you mean? I love that area but know that the dunes are protected.

I figured as much. As you're leaving P-town on Route 6, the dunes wedged between The Small East Harbor (pond) and the sea. I was there two years ago, and will be in the area again this Summer - just looked like a perfect place for a course

[Sam Krume]

Ile de Re....beautiful dunes on a lovely island with the Atlantic breezing in

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,


Thanks for this.

When did regulations start to be imposed?

I'm just surprised courses just didn't happen in days gone by, back before regulations, which is the way things seemed to have evolved in the UK, or was the population etc in the areas not sufficient enough or interested enough to even allow low spec, low maint golf?

Just curious really, the way the game has or hasn't spread or evolved.

Thanks.

Atb

Thomas, that's a great question and I can't point to when they specifically started.  If I had to guess, it would be 40-50 years ago, but thats purely speculation.  Safe to say though, the regulations they've put in place... for at least California, are nearly impossible to overcome.  And its not just been for golf courses, its also for nearly any new structure or modification to the "protected" land.  I've even been to some coastal areas in Calif that had big chunks blocked off to even foot traffic.

As to why they weren't developed before? I would agree they were likely just too remote and too hard to get to before travel became both affordable and convenient for the masses.  That and 40-50 years ago, I don't know if golf had as many potential customers that it does today. 

[Sean Walsh]

Michael:


Projects like Common Ground seem rarer than holy ground.  I've had exactly ONE client ever whose goal was to spend their money to turn a $40 golf course into a really good, $40 golf course.


How about to turn a $5 sandscrape course into a $15 course with greens. Oh and the budget is non-existent. (The land is nice)

[Joe Leenheer]

Rule #1….Location, Location, Location.


My first question would be, "How many months a year do you want this super duper club open?"


If seasonal is ok….maybe check out some islands in Lake Michigan…Like Beaver Island….think about it….BCC….who wouldn't want to join there?


I like islands….so I'll stick with that theme for a bit. 


Now let's go somewhere warm….Aruba….I honeymooned there with my wife.   The terrain was beautiful and the weather superb.  There is a club there…18 holes I think…I "choose" not to play.  North side of island is available.  However, I do prefer the Grand Cayman.  Better Vibe but lacks terrain.


If he wants to stay near CALI….go to Catalina….it's short chopper ride from the main land and he could probably buy the golf course that is already there and you could work your magic.


But the real sleeper pick…..the shoreline of tropical CLEVELAND, OHIO!  Wasted with empty factories and a football stadium that produces more disappointment then a thousand prom nights.


I'd prefer my Honorary Member Number to be #22…but I'll take whatever.

[MClutterbuck]

As to elsewhere, how about around Punta del Este, Uruguay and the coastal areas of neighbouring southern Brazil, Rio Grande do Sol, being the states name. Very sandy coastal areas and P del E is supposed to be a monied kind of place - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-31.328656,-53.5648553,7z/data=!3m1!1e3


Atb

I grew up spending my summers in Punta del Este and go back there every year. Punta has a few problems for golf:


1. There are currently 3 courses close to the town, Cantegril Country Club (Luther Koonts and Emilio Serra), Club del Lago (Serra and Reartes) and La Barra Golf (Emilio Serra and Marcos Capdepont). The courses are busy in January and February, for summer season. Empty for 10 months.


2. Punta del Este has a very short season. Money is there mainly December 26 thru January 10. Season dies late February. Argentines do not travel to Uruguay after February and they comprise most of the golf played there.


3. Most of the Uruguay coast was divided in very small lots back in the 60s. There are only a handful of sites big enough for 18 holes on the coast, much less to hold housing that can finance the course.


4. A course would only be sustainable with associated real estate footing most of the bill.


There is a 4th private course, partially designed by the billionaire owner with some professional help and later some involvement by Angel Cabrera. No outside play other than a few private events. This is further from the town.


A course across the river, south east of Buenos Aires is a lot more feasible and would get play September through May, as it would get play from the Buenos Aires based golfers. Still, it would need a real estate development to pay the bill.


I would like to see Tom redisgn Club del Lago, though. 100% sand based land, with pine trees. No Coast views though, only lake views.

[Ross Harmon]

This might be worth taking a look at Tom. Over 150 acres at only $199,000 Canadian. Almost 900 feet oceanfront.
http://www.thinknovascotia.com/listings/details.asp?key=2314#details

Site looks just a little too narrow for a great course