Where in the World?

[Tom_Doak]

I have a new client with an interesting agenda, sort of like Mike Keiser's agenda a few years ago.

He wants to develop one of the great courses of the world.  It doesn't matter where ... but the property has to be good enough to give us a realistic chance to build something which contends for the top 50.  He thinks sand dunes and an ocean view would be a good start, but is open to other ideas as well.

He lives in California now, but he'd rather not spend all of his money on the property, so he is open to building this anywhere in the world where land might be more affordable -- South America, Australia, South Africa, anywhere.  Where would you tell him to look?

PS  If anybody has any serious leads on a particular piece of property, let me know; I think I can get you an honorary membership at least.

[John_Conley]

Tom, great question.

I was thinking about the untapped frontier when I was driving through a desolate part of Florida a few months ago.  I was daydreaming this exact exercise.

I reckon there is some good land for golf in some obsure places like islands near Greenland/Iceland, much of Africa (although it wouldn't necessarily be ocean view), India, China, and even Russia.

The Happy Gilmore tour stop for San Francisco was filmed (I'm told) at Furry Creek in British Columbia.  My first thoughts were, "I've never SEEN land like that for a golf course!"  (Fjordlike.)  I'm sure only 15% of the world's great golf sites have been addressed.  I'd be shocked if you don't have a very easy time finding the site.

Now, does that part of the world have any need for a golf course?  That's another question entirely.

[Tom_Doak]

For this particular client, I don't think it really matters if the place has a NEED for a golf course, although I am sure he wouldn't mind.  It'll matter more if the construction costs are higher.  

Greenland is a pretty short season, though ... if you were pursuing this for real, I think you'd want to build it somewhere with a season longer than two months [unless you wife insists on living in Greenland].

[Anthony_Nysse]

Could he buy Sebonack?  

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

I believe that the 21st century will see golf become a true global sport and that the great courses of the world, Top 60 or not, will become spread out to places that no one now considers as prome real estate.

What about South America, the coast of Chile or in Argentina. Certainly the wealthy who have come to prize their estates in Patagonia can afford an "Augusta of the Southern Hemisphere?"

Just a thought.

[Norbert P]

  I was smitten when I went through Bruneau Dunes State Park in southern Idaho.  Here is a link to a brief rundown on the area.  

   http://www.idahoparks.org/parks/bruneaudunes.html

  I don't know the fertility of the land adjacent to these sandy parcels but was mainly sage-brushy with outlying farmland.

  Also,  there were some interesting landforms south of Lanark in Scotland but these weren't anywhere near a cool, refreshing body of water.

  Of course, there's the links land Yachats, Oregon but Tommy Nac would kill me if I told you about it.

[CHrisB]

I don't think any country is in the world is more ripe for a world-class course than South Africa. They have some of the best players in the world, but really no world-class golf courses.

I would take a look around Cape Town, which itself is a great destination and has almost a European feel to it (you can drink the tap water, for crying out loud...). I would look north up the coast, which I believe has the type of sandy soil that would provide a great playing surface. The wind is usually pretty brisk there as well.

If you go up that way, check out Atlantic Beach Golf Club, a semi-links which is incredibly tight given the wind, but is really one-of-a-kind in my travels. I started a thread on it (with pictures) early last year:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=12662

I would also look down the peninsula south of Cape Town toward the Cape of Good Hope--I don't know how much land would even be available down there, but it is all absolutely stunning and I think there may be some good sandy stretches down there.

After my trip there (I played Atlantic Beach and a Gary Player course called Erinvale), I posted another thread wondering when South Africa would catch up architecture-wise with the reast of the world:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=12634

I think if you build something great down there, it will be elevated a little further just because there is such a void in the world rankings for South African courses. I'd love to see you make it happen, if a suitable site can be found. But good luck wherever you go!

[Scott Coan]

Tom,

Look no further as your answer is New Zealand.  There are literally dozens of prime hectares of linksland all along the coast of NZ currently occupied by sheep just begging for some golf imagination.  I am sure you would have seen some whilst down here for Kidnappers.

As I'm sure you're aware, NZ is California about 60 years ago so the land is dirt cheap, especially when compared with California prices.  The exchange rate fluctuates between .40 and .70 cents on the US dollar so that is always a built in savings right there.    

The climate is awesome.  For example the last 4 straight weeks have been near perfect 60 degree days and cool, cool nights.  And Aug/Sep is the equivalent of the Northern Feb/March!  

I have been day-dreaming about hooking up Michael Campbell via a mutual friend of ours with a deep-pocketed friend in the USA for this very same project.  I'm sure Cambo would jump at the chance to get involved with a course that would provide provide caddy/golf opportunities to some young Maori.  A picture of the caddy school on the Ballyneal website got me thinking this very thing.    

This will happen, just a matter of time and getting the right people together.

Cheers,
Scott

[Tim Gavrich]

You could always outdo Coore and Crenshaw out in the Heartland !  If you build a better-regarded course than Sand Hills, your client will certainly get his wish!

I really like the mountainous areas in northern New England.  I'd love to see a better version of the Sugarloafs of the area.  Maybe not the best scenery in the country, but darn close in peak foliage season, and it wouldn't be outrageously expensive, I'd think.

There's some absolutely gorgeous ocean property on the SC coast south of Pawleys Island, but north of Mt. Pleasant.  There's very little going on in that stretch, but it's no further from Charleston than Kiawah.  I'm not sure whether there are tough environmental laws on that area, but Mike Strantz designed Bulls Bay CC down there (Awendaw, which doesn't have much going on other than the Country Club), and I'm sure that you'd be able to give it a world-class neighbor.  In the 120+ mile stretch (if you start at the boarder of SC and NC) down to Charleston, with so much golf, it's begging for a modern masterpiece (The Ocean Course notwithstanding).

Dare I say it, but the prices of big pieces of property might be pretty low (relatively) in the recently hurricane-harried areas along the Gulf Coast. I'm not totally sure, but it would seem to me that some people might want to leave those areas, making room for new development.  Chances are quite low that such a devastating event will happen again anytime soon.

If you are able to, I for one would be interested to see where you and your client decide to build!

Best of luck.

[Craig Sweet]

Yachetts, Oregon? I'll be there next weekend for a wedding...so maybe I'll smack some balls around those dunes.

As much as I would like to tell you Montana is THE next golf frontier, I can't and won't. It's waaaaaaayyyyyyyy too cold in the winter and waaaaaaayyyyyyyy too hot and dry in the summer. We also have giant bugs that attack and eat the eyes right out of unsuspecting and unaware tourist...it is ugly!!!!  Of course if the rattlesnakes, wolves and grizzlies get you, you don't have to worry about the giant bugs. Have you ever noticed how you NEVER hear from a rich person again after they move to Montana?

[Tom_Doak]

Craig,

We've got Montana covered, no use competing with ourselves when there are so many other possibilities.

[Chris Munoz]

Well, I know Mexico you are working on a golf course.  But what if move down south a little bit more, in Central and South America.  I am sure there are some great pieces of land down there.

Muni

[TEPaul]

TomD:

Does he care if it's public or private or can it be something in between (the something in between is not a great longterm economic model in my opinion). Great golf course is one thing but the two models (all public or all private) are so different. So what does he want to do that way or does he care?

Does the first initial or this guy's last name fall somewhere between M and R?  

[Sean Leary]

What about the northern/central coast of Maine?  There is a lot of unbelievable coastline there, with the New England topography landwise to boot.  Michael Moore might have more insight, but it still is (relatively) inexpensive...

[Steve_Lovett]

Tom,

Consider the Pacific coast west of Santiago, Chile - around Santo Domingo, etc...  Beautiful coastline, friendly climate, excellent (largely agricultural) soils...

[Billsteele]

Tom-With a little change in the political climate, normalization of relations with Cuba should not be too far off. I have to think there is some spectacular coastal land there. If your client has some patience...

[Ash Towe]

Like Scott, I think New Zealand is a great option.  There is a piece of good land near Waipu, just north of Auckland.  You could capture all the people driving to Kauri Cliffs and it is not to far away from Auckland.  Other than that, there are plenty of coastal options or perhaps a piece of inland property such as a sheep station in the South Island.

[John_McMillan]

Tom,

I've always thought that the Landes are of France has the potential for good golf land.  It is on the Atlantic coast, just South of Bordeaux, with plenty of sand dunes and ocean views.



I'll volunteer my services in whatever extensive search might be conducted.  For a finder's fee, I'll accept a 1961 Chateau Latour.  

[Mike_Sweeney]

On Nevis, 600 acres for Tom Doak (lower 300 are probably pretty good):



The property is next to the Four Seasons resort, a very nice resort course by RTJ/Kyle Phillips:




Clubhouse rendering for GCA outings:



In between the Pinney's Beach/Four Seasons, the airport and Nibet Plantation beach resort



Tom, you can do better than this bunkering at the Four Seasons



12 month season on Nevis, Caribbean needs a non-resort great golf club, the wife stays at the Four Seasons while dad plays Tower Hill Golf Club.

Over on sister island St Kitts, there are two more resort courses and gambling.

The first GCA outing should include dinner at Miss June's:
http://www.nevis1.com/miss_junes.html

[mike_beene]

Glenn Rose Texas.I can start him with 25 acres with good Paluxi River frontage at the start of the hill country.Hour south of DFW,probably other available tracts.Across the river from the dinosaur park.Land less severe than D. National.Drier than Dallas.11 month season.Texas needs more quality.

[Jim Thompson]

Tom,

IM sent.

JT

[Wayne_Kozun]

There is some fantastic fjord-like land in the highlands of Scotland around Ullapool that I think would be fantastic for a golf course.  There is a bay called Brae of Achnahaird that is just stunningly beautiful and would make a wonderful golf course in my opinion.  This area is about 60 km west of Dornoch and doesn't appear to have much in the way of golf and almost no people.  There is only a one lane road from Ullapool and you have to fight with the sheep and cattle for right of way.

See Google maps at Brae of Achnahaird

There is also some great land at the Northeast tip of Cape Breton Island in Nova Scotia that is about 30 km north of Highland Links.  The land is very rugged and overlooks the ocean and has the feel of Scotland.  You could build a fantastic Cape par 3 at this location.

[TEPaul]

Tom Doak:

Just look at all these interested recommenders?

Your next post should be to tell all these posters to put their networking where their words and recommendations are and to fire up the private jets and fly you all over the globe to look at these potential golf course sites they're recommending.

I'll even go along with you. We could drink some wine on the private jets, play some gin, talk how to build the world's greatest bunkerless golf course and what the ideal green speed would be on it!  

[Mike_Sweeney]

The other idea would be to buy the Johnny Browne discovered St Patricks GC in Ireland and fix it up. There you have a real shot at Top 50 status and the permitting is already in place.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=16210;start=0

[Forrest Richardson]

With that agenda you should create the course in the most popular location imaginable — i.e., the most golf populous location you can find. Golf courses are designed landscapes as much as they are found landscapes. A golf course in a remote location may not always be as good as one where millions can be exposed to the greatest game of all.

What a great client. Tell him or her you appreciate the assignment. 9I'm sure you have!)