[Patrick_Mucci]

Are the 9th, 10th and 18th holes at Yale the most unique combination of a par 3, par 4 and par 5 on any golf course ?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
Yes, at least among the courses I've played.

[Brian_Gracely]

Prestwick #5, #17 and #3 probably give it a run for Yale's money in the unique category.  

[Dan_Callahan]

Just about all 18 at Royal New Kent are as unique as those holes. Although I haven't played it, my guess is Tobacco Road can claim some unique holes as well.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick,

Are you forgetting 3, 6, and 18 at NGLA?  

[Michael Moore]

I highly doubt it.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mr. Moore,

That hole has been replaced and has been out of play longer than my George Izett Persimmon Woods!

[Geoffrey Childs]

Pat

I have to agree

The biarritz 9th is intense for every stroke played.  The tee shot requirements are numerous and even more so are the pitches and chips.  The green cants towards the swale (now and forever known as "The Ditch" in honor of our GCA Southern guests who renamed it on Sunday as in -"hey there's a ditch in the middle of that green") in the front and right to left on the back.  Putting is difficult and that includes short putts.


The 10th has superb qualites including the forced carry tee shot and the wildly uphill approach.  Then you get to that green- Wow!  In 10 years that was the first time I've played that pin position on the very front right shelf.  That is quirk at its best.

The 18th is totally unique in its topography and shot requirements.  No where in golf will the player be faced with a second shot to a par 5 like that one. I look forwart to Scott Ramsay removing the trees between 10 fairway and 18 lower fairway to create a better more viable and playable option out to that side. The original green complex was pretty cool too.

[Brian_Gracely]

my guess is Tobacco Road can claim some unique holes as well.

Dan,

You're right, it would be hard to find a more unique set than #6, #15 (or #9, 16) and #13 at Tobacco Road.

#6 plays from about 120* of tee-boxes
#15 offers a blind tee-shot to two fairway areas and a potential blind putt from side to side
#13 offers risk-reward on all three shots

Throw in the fact that it looks unique with today's pictures and I'd say that it should be at the top of the list.

[Phil Benedict]

When the pin is back on 9 the options (for me) are to try to reach the back tier with a three wood or hit a long iron into the gully.  Because there is so much trouble on both sides of the green and the target is smaller on the far side of the gully, I choose to play for the gully and take my chances on being able to two putt.  Worst case score ought to be a four.  A wild three wood brings all sorts of bad possibilities into play.  Played the Biarritz (17th) at Fox Chapel in June, which is about the same length (230 yards), and reached the back tier with a three wood; but this hole is out in the open and you can miss left or right and still find your ball.

The first two times I played Yale I was in my pocket on 18.  The third time, I hit three wood off the tee to avoid going through the fairway and then busted another three wood past the ridge that divides the fairway, pitched on and made par.  I'm still not sure if I like the hole but at least I know how to play it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoff Childs,

Do you or George Bahto have any pictures of the 10th and 18th ?

Pictures of the 10th, from the tee to the green, from the valleyed fairway to the green and from behind the green back to the tee would be highly informative.

On # 18 pictures from the tee toward the green, from the fairway plateau back to the tee and toward the green and from behind the green back to the elevated fairway would be great.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Patrick,

For ground level pics of 10 & 18 see Ran's pics at: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/yale000190.html


10 & 18 via Google

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Sweeney,

It's amazing how much of the relevant details and impact on playability aerials miss.

[Michael Moore]

It's amazing how much of the relevant details and impact on playability aerials miss.

To me it's perfectly understandable how a machine that does not play golf in orbit above the earth might miss a few details.

What's "impact on playability"?

[Geoffrey Childs]

That aerial of 10 and 18 tell little about the playability of those two great holes.

Pat- here are a couple of images that give an idea of the topography of the land these two parallel holes occupy. Its interesting as well how totally different the shot requirements of the two holes are given the similar severe landforms they occupy

#18 from green looking back to the upper left hand fairway.


#10 looking at Paul Turner trying to keep his balance while trying to hit uphill to the green.

[Geoffrey Childs]

It's amazing how much of the relevant details and impact on playability aerials miss.

To me it's perfectly understandable how a machine that does not play golf in orbit above the earth might miss a few details.

What's "impact on playability"?

Michael - That's a pretty dumb statement.  The aerial photo flattens everything out and shows no hint of the terrain a golfer on earth must traverse with his or her shots.  That certainly impacts the perception of a viewer on the playability of that hole.

[George_Bahto]

Yale 18 - the mystery:

was this the intended alternate fairway and they just plain ran out of money??

[Geoffrey Childs]

George

What do you think of the idea of removing all but a single row of trees that separate 10 from 18 and expanding the lower fairway?

I really like the idea of making the lower fairway a viable option. It's pretty obvious from that old photo that you discovered (posted above) that the old right side bunker would make plays from that side more difficult.  Hitting towars that side also brings the stream bed into play.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Pat - Of those I have played, yes, though I would replace the 10th with either the 3rd or the 4th hole.  What about courses in the British Isles?

[ForkaB]

Haven't played Yale, but I find it very hard to believe (if we are to go along with this solecism of some sort of continuum of "uniqueness"....) that the holes at Yale are more unique (uniquer?) than 11, 14 and 17 at The Old Course.

Pat and Michael and Geoff

You can, in fact, get incredible texture (allowing for very good intimations of "playability") from aerial photographs if they are high resolution and integrated with detailed GPS readings at ground level.  I've seen this future, and it works.

[Michael Moore]

That's a pretty dumb statement.  The aerial photo flattens everything out and shows no hint of the terrain a golfer on earth must traverse with his or her shots.  That certainly impacts the perception of a viewer on the playability of that hole.

Geoff -

I think we're all in agreement here. Pat said he was amazed that aerial photos reveal so little detail about what a golf hole is really like. And I said that I was not amazed by that, seeing as how the satellite camera is very very far away from the golf hole. Please read more carefully.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Michael- I read carefully but your nitpicking feud with Pat wears thin and belongs off line.

[Michael Moore]

Michael- I read carefully but your nitpicking feud with Pat wears thin and belongs off line.

I can't do that - Pat Mucci is a perfect gentleman off line - downright cuddly!

[Geoffrey Childs]

Michael- I read carefully but your nitpicking feud with Pat wears thin and belongs off line.

I can't do that - Pat Mucci is a perfect gentleman off line - downright cuddly!


Cuddly Pat

You're right - sorry - carry on then

[Michael Moore]

On topic then -

The great and learned George Bahto claims in his interview that when it comes to Biarritzes there are "too many great ones to detail".

1. Does this disqualify Yale 9 as being one of the most unique holes around, or does the pond thing really crank up the interest here?

2. I have to admit that to the casual observer the Biarritz seems like an exciting golf experience. Do you MacRaynorheads ever grow tired of this type of hole?

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