[John_Conley]

O'Neal played at LSU.

You are obviously talking about Shaquille O'Neal.  I'm not.

Perennial All-Star Jermaine O'Neal is yet another preps-to-pros example.

[johnk]

BTW,

Wie's average at the 2005 Sony: 261.

That was 2yds shorter for the week than the 2005 PGA Tour's shortest avg driver: Corey Pavin.  Fred Funk did 274 that week.

[John_Conley]

John:

Wie at the Sony was 261.0, in line with Simpson (260., Pavin (263.0).  Not too far behind other cut-missers that week Funk (274., Langer (same), and Na (272.5).

CLEARLY she is not as long as the average Tour player.  I don't think anyone said that.  She'd be on the short end of who is out there.  Remember, Annika's trip to Colonial consisted of two days of being unable to make birdie opportunities due to lack of power.  Kenny Perry had a round with something like 9 birdie putts inside 10'.  Annika had one, and that was when her ball kicked off a bunker and rolled to the hole.

Don't mistake what we are saying.  Annika is awesome and obviously the best woman in the world.  However, when someone says, "What is it that Wie does that Pressel/Sorenstam/whoever can't?" the answer is pretty clear.  She's got a power game.

Perhaps Wie isn't quite as long as I think.  But I will say she was 30 yards past Paula Creamer (2005 avg. 248.7) at the 2003 Open qualifier, which would seem to indicate about 10 yards on Annika (266. IF there were ever courses that allowed Drivers on all the measured holes for Wie.

I don't see Michelle Wie much different than Michelle McGann in terms of course setup.  McGann continually had to fit her game to the course instead of being allowed to just "go out and play" the way a Mi Hyun Kim can.  How short are LPGA courses?  I saw Nancy Lopez hit 3W-SW to #9 on either the N or S nine at Grand Cypress with a little tailwind.  The hole measures 470 from the backs and can require D-4i for a Tour player.

Not only would Wie benefit from longer courses on the LPGA Tour, Annika would as well.

I'll concede that there are numbers to indicate that Gustafson and Sorenstam are in the same league as Wie.  However, there's a huge difference in their ability to power their way around a course.  I'd like to see Annika and Wie in the final group at the Dinah next year so we can see for ourselves.  You were lucky to have been out there for the McDonald's.

[Doug Siebert]

I believe the perception of Tiger being invincible at one time, both in his mind and his opponents was his record of incredible amatuer success.

Certainly Tiger's success in winning the US Amateur 3 times in a row was a big part of the intimidation factor he used to have when starting out.  And I'll agree that if Wie came in with 3 Women's Amateur titles she'd have a similar aura of invincibility.  But how much bigger would her aura be if she made the cut in a few men's tournaments, or became the only woman to qualify for the Masters?  Worth more than a few Amateur victories, I'd say!

John, in that same tournament she also hit a 575 yard par five in two with a 260 yard 3 wood for her second.  Putted from ten feet for an eagle.  Whatever the stats show on the holes they measured, she clearly can hit the ball quite a bit further than 270īs.  

I can provide a small bit of empirical evidence here.  I was at the Deere on Friday, and stood alongside the 14th fairway when Wie teed off.  I chose the spot I did because I had a spot picked out where I thought she'd aim -- since I've played that course a couple times before, it wasn't that hard to guess her strategy.  She carried it right about 260 on that shot, very high shot, rolled only 2-3 yards.  Hot and sticky day, no wind to speak of, teebox elevated maybe 10 feet off the landing area.  Watching the TV coverage I'd Tivo'ed when I got home, I saw that she hit a 3W as I figured she would, to stay short of the bunker on the right (the one the TV guys kept saying over and over again was 305 to carry, but is really about 280)

Since she couldn't have a realistic go at that green, she couldn't have dropped a ball in a better spot for that pin position.  When she hit that SW from 100 yards over the pin and only two yards short of kicking off the hill in back into the hazard, my heart skipped a beat.  I'd never have the guts to fly it all the way back to where that pin was, because I'd be worried about that happening!  Most of the other pros played a lower shot that took two forward hops before stopping.  Guess she doesn't have that yet (don't worry Michelle, I don't either )

[noonan]

She will make MILLIONS.......regardless of where she plays.

[rgkeller]

"My point was that she (Wie) played in a tournament THIS YEAR where she was the favorite"

Which tournament was that?

[Craig Sweet]

Matt Ward,

"Wie has progressed because of her God-given talent but the question remains -- has she reached a certain level and will go no further. That -- only time will say for sure."


Questions remain? Has she reached a certain level and will go no further?

You're not serious are you?

Like I said in a previous post, sportswriters say some idiotic things.

[Jim Nugent]

[quote author=Doug Siebert
I can provide a small bit of empirical evidence here.  I was at the Deere on Friday, and stood alongside the 14th fairway when Wie teed off.  I chose the spot I did because I had a spot picked out where I thought she'd aim -- since I've played that course a couple times before, it wasn't that hard to guess her strategy.  She carried it right about 260 on that shot, very high shot, rolled only 2-3 yards.  Hot and sticky day, no wind to speak of, teebox elevated maybe 10 feet off the landing area.  Watching the TV coverage I'd Tivo'ed when I got home, I saw that she hit a 3W as I figured she would, to stay short of the bunker on the right (the one the TV guys kept saying over and over again was 305 to carry, but is really about 280)

Since she couldn't have a realistic go at that green, she couldn't have dropped a ball in a better spot for that pin position.  When she hit that SW from 100 yards over the pin and only two yards short of kicking off the hill in back into the hazard, my heart skipped a beat.  I'd never have the guts to fly it all the way back to where that pin was, because I'd be worried about that happening!  Most of the other pros played a lower shot that took two forward hops before stopping.  Guess she doesn't have that yet (don't worry Michelle, I don't either )

The hole I was thinking of was the 17th in the 1st round.  300+ yard drive, 250+ yard 2nd shot to 10 feet.  Missed eagle putt, but made birdie.  Her swing is shorter this year, but she can definitely hit it longer than 270 when she wants.

BTW, for Wie to ever compete with the men, she is going to have to learn to putt better.  Especially short putts.  Last round of the LPGA championship, seemed like nearly every green she was putting for birdie from inside 15 foot.  Made almost none.  U.S. Open last round again missed short putt after short putt, including two inside 2 feet.  British Open saw a ton of 4 to 7 footers slide by the hole.

Vijay often has the same problem.  IMO this is her biggest weakness right now.  



 

[Brent Hutto]

If she were playing on the LPGA Tour right now, I'd expect her to pretty much be the Vijay Singh of women's golf. Hits the ball as well as anybody out there and longer than most, good enough short game to be in contention week in and week out, only wins tournaments when she's putting her very best (and her very best is probably about tour average putting).

[rgkeller]

"My point was that she (Wie) played in a tournament THIS YEAR where she was the favorite"

Which tournament was that?

US Girls Junior, which is where the "I"m only 15" excuse couldn't have been used, even if she was inclined to use it.

Ms. Wie has not played in the US Girls Junior since 2003 when she was beaten by a fifteen year old. In fact, Ms. Wie has also not returned to the US Womens Publinks and the US Womens Amateur after being beaten by fellow teenage girls.

[Mike Hendren]

Let's say you're 15 years old.  Let's say you're a stick.  Why on earth would you not RELISH the opportunity to win the national amateur?  Give me ONE good reason - other than Matt's.

[Mike Benham]

She will make MILLIONS.......regardless of where she plays.

Yep. she and her Pops (Tiger's term for strong fatherly figure who takes the credit for the direction and success of the kids career) will be crying "WIE WIE WIE" all the way to the bank ...

Potential is a great negotiating position ...

[Brian_Gracely]

Bogey,

Because some folks don't care about amateur events...simple as that.  It's all about what you're exposed to at a young age.  So if all you do is watch professional sports on TV, then your perception is that professional sports should be the goal to shoot for.  

I know it's cool think that you could be walking in the footsteps of Bobby Jones or Jay Siegel, but is it all that cool to be walking in the footsteps of Bubba Dickenson or Jeff Quinney?  

[Brent Hutto]

I know it's cool think that you could be walking in the footsteps of Bobby Jones or Jay Siegel, but is it all that cool to be walking in the footsteps of Bubba Dickenson or Jeff Quinney?  

I think you could have stopped after Bobby Jones.

[CHrisB]

Let's say you're 15 years old.  Let's say you're a stick.  Why on earth would you not RELISH the opportunity to win the national amateur?  Give me ONE good reason - other than Matt's.

Because, if you are Michelle Wie, you now realize that there are dozens of tournaments that are better tournaments than the national amateur.

For most 15-year-olds, the national amateur is the pinnacle. For Michelle Wie, it has to fall below any PGA, LPGA, and men's USGA event.

Once she tees it up in PGA Tour events, all four LPGA majors, men's mini-tour events, and men's USGA events where the winner gets a ticket to the Masters, what the U.S. Women's Amateur really have to offer her other than a title?

[rgkeller]

"She's a dodging chicken"

I don't think Wie is a chicken.

But her handlers (and possibly Ms. Wie) are well aware that her invites to the LPGA and PGA events she so dearly loves are rooted in the widespread belief that Ms. Wie is overwhelmingly superior to other girls in her age group. Losing in match play to such can only mar that image and thus not be in Ms. Wie's short term or long term interests.

Whether eliminating so many match play events and the accompanied opportunities to perform under the constant pressure of high level match play is good for the development of Ms. Wie's game is another question entirely.

[Mike Hendren]

... but is it all that cool to be walking in the footsteps of Bubba Dickenson or Jeff Quinney?  

Boxster,

I shot 92/96 yesterday - so my answer is "yes."


I cannot imagine NOT wanting to beat anybody, anywhere, any time for anything at the age of 15 years old.  How on earth can WIE NOT want to take Morgan Pressel to the woodshed, for example. I'm guessing it's not her decision.

[Brian_Gracely]

Bogey-meister,

What if Pressel doesn't make it to the match-play?  What if Wie's bracket is only against DoubleEagle Kim, ChipShot Kim, Shank Kim, OnePutt Kim and WormBurner Kim?  

I really don't buy this talk about "it's not her decision".  I don't think she cares about the amateir events all that much.  And for those that think an amateur loss would hurt her Q-rating, what about after she lost in the USWAPL after winning the year before?  She's still pretty darn popular now, huh?  

And for anyone that believes that Wie & Co. are selling her past record to potential sponsors, you don't know squat about advertising and marketing.  It's all about FUTURE POTENTIAL.  She's got a squeeky-clean past (no steroid or falling hula-skirt incidents) and she's got HUGE upside, and length, and potential.....wait a second, I just became Hubbie Brooks during the NBA draft....

[CHrisB]

Has anyone considered the fact that, for Michelle Wie, playing in PGA, LPGA, men's amateur events, etc. is just plain more fun than playing in junior or women's amateur events?

I mean, look at the fanfare, the way she gets treated, the superior players, superior courses, media attention, etc. That has to be quite a rush for her, and she probably doesn't get that kind of rush when she goes back down to the "minor leagues". And I'll bet it affects her play.

[rgkeller]

Has anyone considered the fact that, for Michelle Wie, playing in PGA, LPGA, men's amateur events, etc. is just plain more fun than playing in junior or women's amateur events?

I mean, look at the fanfare, the way she gets treated, the superior players, superior courses, media attention, etc. That has to be quite a rush for her, and she probably doesn't get that kind of rush when she goes back down to the "minor leagues". And I'll bet it affects her play.

Certainly the USGA does not provide free spa treatments to Ms. Wie as the PGA Tour does - although there were rumors of David Fay personally offering a foot rub.

[Mike Benham]

It's all about FUTURE POTENTIAL.  She's got a squeeky-clean past (no steroid or falling hula-skirt incidents) and she's got HUGE upside, and length, and potential.....wait a second, I just became Hubbie Brooks during the NBA draft....

Classic ...

[Craig Sweet]

Arthur Ashe was the only tennis player to win the US Amatuer and the US Open in the same year.  He might have been the LAST of the great amatuer tennis players. Now, the rush is on to make money! If Arthur Ashe were alive today, and 17 years old, I have absolutely no doubts that he would be a professional.There is nothing wrong with that.
Hooray for Michelle Wie for doing both for now!!!

Those people who long for an amatuer to come along, and remain an amatuer, and compete with pro's as an amatuer, are delusional in their thinking. Today it's all about money, but why not? That's what we want, right? There isn't a poster here, that can afford to belong to two or three very prestigious clubs, that didn't live their life for the money. Michelle Wie has a plan to make money! Good for her!

Hooray for Wie when she turns pro!!

[Mike Hendren]

Shivas,

How do you define a champion?

[rgkeller]

The grind of match play against top level competition is the best training/experience/preparation for the pressure that faces those playing with a chance to win a stroke play event.

In match play, every match is a tournament and WINNING is required for success.

[Matt_Ward]

Shivas:

Check out the comments made by team Wie during her failures at the Girl's Junior and those that followed her. Wie doesn't say much -- but her team is quick to add the age disclaimer when needed.

Shivas -- you ducked the main point I made -- Wie bypasses amateur competitions because Team Wie fully knows that winning when you are the overwhelming favorite is a far different story than being in the midst of a major stroke play event with little or no downside. You didn't answer that -- why is that pardner? Maybe, just maybe you are wrong and the singular fact that Team Wie (as opposed to just Michelle) seeks to avoid any bump in the marketing road they are heading.

Craig Sweet:

There have been plenty of phenoms who have been huge successes early in their competitive years but they have flamed out as time progressed.

What will happen to Wie is an unknown.

The potential is there -- but if you believe she is lock to be the greatest women player of all time then I think you are clearly getting way ahead of yourself and the tag idiotic may be pointed in the wrong direction.

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