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Matt_Ward

The Wie Marketing Plan
« on: August 03, 2005, 01:09:01 PM »
Before all the hounds begin to yelp and bark I have to hand it to the folks marketing Michelle Wie. They have simply bypassed any of the events that might impede the future marketing $$$ of Michelle.

To wit ...

You won't see Michelle in the field of this year's US Women's Amateur.

Why?

Very simple.

Michelle would be the big time favorite and anything less than victory might knock a few dollars off her overall value when she ultimately turns pro. Chris Baldwin said this on Worldgolf.com and frankly I agree with his premise.

I have to wonder if the Wie camp is deliberately avoiding such events because there's everything to lose and little to win -- but then again winning when you are supposed to is the ultimate in pressure type situations. Nothing like having Michelle compete in the professional events because even if she flops badly (witness the 4th round in the Women's Open) she still gains simply because of the wherewithal to use the "look how young she is" excuse.

I only wish Wie would take to heart what Tiger said originally. Learning to win among players within her own classification would only build her overall value and strength as a player in the long run.

I wonder what Morgan Pressel and Jane Park are thinking that Michelle has opted not to contest them in such a major amateur event like the Women's Amateur.

Michelle Wie has considerable talent -- the bigger question for me -- does she have the guts / capacity to win when she is the center stage item. Thus far -- I have not seen it but why should competition get in the way of the ultimate purpose -- the marketing of a young woman for maximum $$$.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2005, 01:16:08 PM »
Matt:

I assume she will sign with Nike as Tiger did and many of the same sponsors.

What percent do you think she will sign for as a percentage of Tiger?

For example, if Tiger has a $5 million dollar per year contract with American Express, $6 million with Buick, etc., do you think she'll get more than 33% or less?
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Matt_Ward

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 01:19:19 PM »
Cary:

The bigger question -- is how much upfront $$$ she gets versus what Annika is getting NOW.


Brent Hutto

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 01:21:37 PM »
And this thread contribute to the discussion of golf course architecture just how?

Oh yes, it's histrionic speculation about the motives and financial arrangements of a golf celebrity. That sort of thing is always sure to start a heated discussion and heated discussions are always on-topic. No relevance to the site is required under the shit-stirring exception.

OK, answered my own question.

Brian_Gracely

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 01:26:12 PM »
Brent,

Matt failed to mention that early speculation has Michelle Wie doing some co-architectural work with Jim Engh.  Their first design will be to adapt Lakota Canyon to the volcano regions of Hawaii and Maui.  

Matt will now be operating the PR arm of the NJ offices for Wie-Engh Golf Designs.  

Matt_Ward

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 01:29:44 PM »
Sandbox:

Good stuff -- now tell the folks at Mie Marketing Inc, to send me an advance check so that we can tape future matches with her at Lakota Canyon Ranch. ;D ;D

Brent:

Take a chill partner -- there's plenty on GCA that doesn't dovetail to architecture -- when everyone else conforms I'll be happy to oblige.

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 01:43:55 PM »
Curious will she join the IMG machine?

if so expect to see a prime time TV golf match with Tiger, Wie and others from IMG.

In the agent world she must be the #1 target.
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 02:36:38 PM »
Matt,
My understanding is that Wie told the USGA that she would be able to play in the U.S. Women's Am here in Atlanta IF she got a late tee time on Monday so that she could make it back from the Women's British Open.  The USGA gave her 7:05 a.m., effectively ending the discussion.  I don't know the truth of all that, and I'm not necessarily blaming the USGA if that is how it happened, but that may explain her absence.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jim Nugent

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 03:05:14 PM »
Before all the hounds begin to yelp and bark I have to hand it to the folks marketing Michelle Wie. They have simply bypassed any of the events that might impede the future marketing $$$ of Michelle.

To wit ...

You won't see Michelle in the field of this year's US Women's Amateur.

Why?

Very simple.

Michelle would be the big time favorite and anything less than victory might knock a few dollars off her overall value when she ultimately turns pro. Chris Baldwin said this on Worldgolf.com and frankly I agree with his premise.

I have to wonder if the Wie camp is deliberately avoiding such events because there's everything to lose and little to win -- but then again winning when you are supposed to is the ultimate in pressure type situations. Nothing like having Michelle compete in the professional events because even if she flops badly (witness the 4th round in the Women's Open) she still gains simply because of the wherewithal to use the "look how young she is" excuse.

I only wish Wie would take to heart what Tiger said originally. Learning to win among players within her own classification would only build her overall value and strength as a player in the long run.

I wonder what Morgan Pressel and Jane Park are thinking that Michelle has opted not to contest them in such a major amateur event like the Women's Amateur.

Michelle Wie has considerable talent -- the bigger question for me -- does she have the guts / capacity to win when she is the center stage item. Thus far -- I have not seen it but why should competition get in the way of the ultimate purpose -- the marketing of a young woman for maximum $$$.

Matt, looking entirely from the outside -- the Wieīs have not yet chosen to consult with me -- I see their game plan entirely differently.  I think they want to make Michelle into the best golfer they can.  Every choice they make is aimed at that one goal.  

Take the U.S. Amateur.  Scheduling conflict meant she realistically had to choose between that and the British Open.   So which better developes her game?  To me itīs no contest.  The Open.  She plays against the best women golfers in the world, in one of the four most important championships, on a stage watched by tens of millions.  She has a very good chance of winning this tournament, and in fact tied for third.      

Wie whipped top adult amateurs when she was 13.  (She beat a two-time collegiate all-American, who later won the U.S. Amateur, in the finals of the publinx.)  Her LPGA results this year show to me she is one of the two or three best women players in the world.  On menīs length courses, she is number one: even Annika did not come close to matching her results.  How then does it help her game to play against inferior competition, on lesser courses, in a less prestigious venue?  

Tiger never faced the choices Wie does.  When he was a teenager he clobbered the other amateurs, but flopped against the pros.  He didnīt come close to winning majors: he missed the cut in every tournament he played for years, till he was 19.  Tiger played to his level, and his forays into PGA events showed he was out of his class there.  

Suppose that was not the case though.  Suppose at 15 Tiger was racking up 2nd place finishes in menīs majors...posting the 2nd-best scoring average on tour (despite playing only the toughest courses)...leading the U.S. Open after 54 holes...having the highest percentage of under-par rounds of any PGA player...finishing in the top ten in earnings, though he only played seven events?  If that had been the case, IMO he would have wasted his time playing the amateur events.

Winning.  That is the biggest refrain against Wie.  If she were 24, had played full-time on tour for years, and had no Wīs, there might be a point.  (Though even then some players mature later.  Hogan and Vijay are two prominent examples.)   But Wie is 15, and only played seven LPGA events this year!  Her results are astonishingly good.  Statistically, her play ranks second only behind Annika.  Iīll offer you a friendly wager that Wie soon sets the new record for youngest winner in LPGA history.      

Marketing.  If Wie keeps getting better, she will easily make nine figures and possibly more from golf.   Especially if she shows she can play on the PGA tour.  That is a complete unknown now.  But for the first time ever, itīs a possibility.  A woman may be able to play the PGA.  The PGA pros know it: during the menīs British Open, Montie said as soon as he finished his round he raced to find out how Wie did at the Publinx.  She did great, showing she could play with the best men amateurs.  

IMO the Wies are building her game brilliantly.  She plays her peers -- the best LPGA players.  She plays a little against PGA players, and shows she is not far behind there either.  Every year her game and results get better.  I predict the wins will soon follow.  If her game improves the way it does for most 15 year olds, she is also real likely to win on the PGA tour.    

 

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2005, 03:10:23 PM »


Did she have an exemption to the US open.? Maybe when the USGA gives an amatuer an exemption to the US open they should make sure she is going to play in the Amatuer?

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2005, 03:30:06 PM »
It always interesting to me to see how many people have opinions as to how others should lead their lives.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jim Nugent

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2005, 03:38:35 PM »


Did she have an exemption to the US open.? Maybe when the USGA gives an amatuer an exemption to the US open they should make sure she is going to play in the Amatuer?

She was given an exemption to the 2004 U.S. Open.  The USGA said she would have qualified on earnings, if she had accepted paychecks in the few LPGA tournies she played.  Her finish in the 2004 Open qualified her for 2005.  

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 03:54:54 PM »


Thanks. I really do not care what the Wie family decides to do with Michelle, but I do care what the esteemed USGA does.  As someone who belongs to a club that hosted the US womens Am recently, lost money, and was told it was for the "good of the game" and "giving back to the game" by the USGA.  

I think the proper thing would be to help amatuer golf  by participating in the US am as a prerequisite of getting an exemption to the us open which is sponsered by the same organization.

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2005, 04:07:15 PM »
Corey:

She did play in the US Am.

Matt_Ward

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 04:09:29 PM »
Jim:

Appreciate the thoughtful reply but you sidestepped my main points.

The Wie team know full well that if she had played in the Women's Amateur she is EXPECTED to win. That's a whole different story when you play in a professional event and know full well that even if you fall flat on your face you still have the "I'm only 15" excuse ready to fire at anyone who inquires on what happened.

I'd like to see Wie play in an event in which she is the overwhelming favorite and then does what such favorites do -- win and win comfortably.

Look, she knows what happened the last time she played in the Girl's Junior. She got beat and you could see the pressure on her for every match PRECISELY for the reasons I indicated at the outset -- being the favorite is entirely different than just being a face in a pro event.

Jim -- I love the refrain "wasting one's time." Hate to bust the bubble but Wie has not exactly conquered the amateur world just yet. And that's my point -- the Wie team know full well that if she were to lose a few amateur events the whole notion that Wie is the "next whatever" would take a few hits and there would be some bumping down in the marketing $$ she would command when she turns pro. Frankly, I can see the reasons why they duck such events from a straight marketing position.

The "spin" argument that Wie is beyond amateur level play is a canard. She advanced a few rounds at the Public Links but let's hold all the roses being thrown her way. How bout a spot on the Walker Cup team if she really is thaaaaaat good?  

The folks in her camp know that staying predominantly at the pro level provides adequate "cover" whether she does well or even poorly. It's a very slick to position herself but I want to see the wins first. If the amateurs were such easy prey then why not demonstrate that and shut people like me up for good? ;)

Last thing Jim -- ask Pressel or Park if they think Wie is ducking them for the event being held in the Atlanta area? I'd love to hear their answer if they were truly candid.


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2005, 04:13:06 PM »
I'll bet Michelle is losing a lot of sleep worrying about what Morgan Pressel thinks of her - I don't know how she gets out of bed every day.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Matt_Ward

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2005, 04:17:12 PM »
Hey George:

Ducking is something professional boxers have done for years. Tiger never ducked anyone particularly when he was in the amateur ranks and when everyone had their sights set on beating him.

Why is the Wie camp so gun shy if the competition at the amateur ranks is soooooooooooooooo E-Z?

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2005, 04:18:35 PM »
The Womens Am started on Monday? Wie would have left the UK late in the evening on Sunday, fly all night and make an early morning tee time??? Perhaps have a lousy round of golf, suffer all sorts of criticism for that lousy round, and somehow this would benefit her...or the Womens Am??????

Michelle Wie can do whatever she likes, and someday she will start to win these events, and the only question will be how often and on what tour will she be winning this week.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Brent Hutto

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2005, 04:20:32 PM »
To try and drag the argument at least trivially in the golf course architecture realm...

Any player who can choose his or her tournaments will tend to choose the ones that play to his or her strengths relative to the rest of the field. Tiger Woods is never going to skip the US Open because he knows he can beat other Tour players on that sort of setup. He skips the John Deere Classic and among other reason it's because he knows that a birdie-fest like that brings all sorts of lesser players within a few putts dropping of being able to win.

Don't you think Birkdale set up for an Open offers a better competitive advantage to Michelle Wie than a course set up for a women's amateur or more ridiculously for a junior event? As a golf fan, I'm certainly more interested in watching her play against Sorenstam and the Koreans at Birkdale than at seeing her sweating out 18-hole match play rounds against women who couldn't make a cut on the Futures tour.

Brent Hutto

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2005, 04:23:13 PM »
I'll bet Michelle is losing a lot of sleep worrying about what Morgan Pressel thinks of her - I don't know how she gets out of bed every day.

Yeah, and just imagine how bummed out she'll be when she sees Matt Ward trash-talking her here.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2005, 04:26:30 PM »
Blah blah blah.

Do any of Michelle's critics have any new original thoughts, or have we finally reached the point where we can start shorthand criticisms about her like the old Mel Brooks/Carl Reiner joke?

"Win"

"Am"

"Dominate first"

blah blah blah



Add-on: nice points as always, Brent.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 04:27:53 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wie will be fine
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2005, 04:33:42 PM »
Matt:

My feelings on the "she needs to win" camp....

Hogwash.

Dottie Pepper is doing a great job for TGC, but she's WAAAAAYYYY off-base on this one.  Her protection of the status quo rank-and-file smacks of Strange and his strange comments about Woods.  (They look far worse in hindsight.)

Somehow the crew (Hewitt, Chamblee, whoever) got to talking about Wie on the Solheim team.  Now I don't have any idea what the criteria is for selection, so don't get the thought train off track.  The men in the studio said sure, Wie should play and she'd add a lot to the team.  Pepper said no, and out came the "do you really want her looking over a 15 footer on the last hole to win the Solheim Cup" comment.

This is the wrong way to look at it on so many levels, but let me just address three.

A) Dottie, if that happened at least one could say that Wie took it to the last hole before succumbing.
B) The Captain could send her out first if nerves are a concern.
C) Who do you propose they choose?  Wie - or a girl she beats REGULARLY and CONVINCINGLY... EVERY SINGLE TIME they play?

Matt, I don't see any problem with someone playing at the highest level every chance she gets.  The cost for the Evian Masters is probably less than it would be for the next AJGA stop.  3rd here, 2nd, 2nd, last group at the Open before the collapse - there is a huge difference between someone that can't win and hasn't won yet.

Sportsfans and commentators are notoriously critical.  The problem with the can't win mantra is that you can't say it any longer once broken.  Phil Mickelson can't win a Major.  (Until he did win the Masters and now every media outlet has to SHUT UP.  Notice, they didn't print retractions.  Why not?  They were flat out wrong.)  Many Americans like quick, trite, brief responses that can be easily crammed into a tiny compartment.  People don't often have time for the longer response.  Longer responses are usually necessary when matters are more complex than black and white.

Do a word association with anyone about Anna Kournikova and tell them they can't use "hot".  No doubt they'll say NEVER WON instead of "Charles Schwab" or something else.  Excuse me, she rose to a WORLD RANK of about 10 - a remarkable achievement.  Sure, her popularity was greater than many despite owning fewer accomplishments, but it isn't like she was a horrible serve and volleyer.

Wie, I reckon, would have a world rank of about 5 or higher if the formula could capture her successes.  The simple fact is that very few women have beaten her consistently, and that includes Annika.  Even if you argue that in golf you are measured by what you win, she's still won an impressive three matches at the APL and the women's version of the same when she was 13.

I believe you are correct.  Her endorsement value doesn't increase with wins at the US Am.  One could even argue that is a GOOD thing since the Am isn't for endorsement value.

Matt_Ward

Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2005, 04:39:06 PM »
Hey Brent / George, et al (all Wie lovers / apologists) out there:

Let me say this -- I really like Michelle Wie -- but I also like to see competitions that impact the "name" she has created for herself.

How bout winning against the "easy prey" -- if they are such soft marks then why not put all that prestige and fanfare on the line and show people like me and others (many agree but don't post here) that she is as dominant as everyone claims her to be. Why not show people -- as Tiger did when he won three straight Junior and Amateur titles that you are capable in being under the FAVORITES SPOTLIGHT and winning when you are expected to do it.

The Wie camp found out about pressure the last time she played in the Girls' Junior because the bulls-eye was on Wie's back 24/7. There was no "I'm just 15-years-old" excuse being pushed forward because she was SUPPOSE to win.

You guys are great -- you simply inhale the marketing spin of "Oh, she could not get a tee time" at the Women's Amateur and all the rest of the pablum.

The Wie camp knows that amateur golf is not such an automatic item -- better to stay away and protect her coveted status as the next best thing since Tiger. The marketing gurus at IMG already know this and best of all so does her dad.




John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2005, 04:44:10 PM »
I'd like to see Wie play in an event in which she is the overwhelming favorite and then does what such favorites do -- win and win comfortably.

Look, she knows what happened the last time she played in the Girl's Junior. She got beat and you could see the pressure on her for every match PRECISELY for the reasons I indicated at the outset -- being the favorite is entirely different than just being a face in a pro event.

Jim -- I love the refrain "wasting one's time." Hate to bust the bubble but Wie has not exactly conquered the amateur world just yet.

How bout a spot on the Walker Cup team if she really is thaaaaaat good?  

Last thing Jim -- ask Pressel or Park if they think Wie is ducking them for the event being held in the Atlanta area? I'd love to hear their answer if they were truly candid.

Matt:  In reverse order....

* Nobody cares what Pressel or Park think.  Sorry.
* I asked the same about the Walker, thinking that her name would come up if she had won the APL.  It is for males only.
* Wie may never conquer amateur golf.  So what?  Cypress Creek went .500 and a year later their star was ROY in the NBA.  Forget conquering college, Amare never even conquered high school basketball.  Does it matter?  (To you it seems to.  The beauty of our world is that we don't answer to each other.  She can do what she wants when she wants because she's Michelle Wie.  You don't have to like it and she doesn't have to care if you don't.)
* The U.S. Girls Junior is a hard event for Michelle to win.  I've said it before, Michelle Wie will win every week as soon as the LPGA and USGA start playing 7,500 yard courses at sea level.  She's a great player, but setting up courses that negate EVERY advantage she has isn't something she has to put up with.  Where have you gone Vicky Goetze?  Oh yeah, nobody cares what happens to an amateur legend that can't perform at a higher level.  Chris Porter is just one of a hundred examples I can name from basketball.  The world doesn't care what happened to Chris Porter.
* You'd like to see Wie win an event when she's the favorite?  Great, I'll send you the schedule of events for the Hawaiian girls HS championships.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Wie Marketing Plan
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2005, 04:45:50 PM »
Thanks, Matt - we'll file that one under "dominate first". Now when you choose to make that point for the 1001st time, simply say "dominate first" and the rest of us will know what you're referencing.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

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