[Scott Coan]

By Eric Olson, Associated Press  |  August 3, 2005

MULLEN, Neb. -- Along state highway 97 in the Sandhills, where there are as many as 30 cows for every person, you can go miles and miles without meeting another vehicle.

Denver is 262 miles to the west, Omaha 263 miles to the east. In between is a place roamed by cowboys, where cars are forced to the side of the road by cattle drives.

It's a lonely, desolate landscape perhaps best known as the vast expanse where media mogul Ted Turner established a 450-square-mile reserve that's home to more than 9,000 buffalo.

But if things go according to Jack Nicklaus's plan, the area will become a premier golf destination. His vision is for highway 97 to become a trail connecting the acclaimed Sand Hills Club with two new projects, the Dismal River Club and the Prairie Club.

http://www.boston.com/sports/golf/articles/2005/08/03/changing_landscape/

[TEPaul]

This concept (two more courses nearby) seems to be that odd "destination symbiosis" where actual competitors feel they can be mutually benefical to one another.

[TEPaul]

"Methinks not."

redanman:

And that's why Youngscap built Sand Hills, Tremble will build the Prarie club and Nicklaus the other one and you didn't!  

[TEPaul]

"Ever wonder why there would ever be 2 gas stations on the same corner or why half the McDonalds's have a BK just down the street?"

Shivas:

Nope, I definitely never did wonder why that was.  

But if that "competitor symbiosis" thing is true and I ran Macdonald's I'd recommend that Macdonald's buy all the BKs and just keep the BK names down the street.  

But who the hell really knows in this wonderful world of American capitalism we live in. A few years ago Wally U was complaining that different ball lines were hurting sales of the Titleist Professional. When they asked him which competing ball lines were hurting the Professional he said all the other ball lines Titleist was making!  

Go figure!

[cary lichtenstein]

The golf courses they are building are very inexpensive, don't even require USGA greens because the sand goes down so deep.

So the only isssue is an airport and places to stay. If you use Bandon as the premiere model, this area will succeed big time.

Now  if all the clubs got together and offered a membership package plus the courses being open to the public every 3rd or 4th day on a rotating basis, or a national membership for all, throw in Ballyneal, I'd pony up in a milli second

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

There is a huge difference between Bandon, Scotland and rural Nebraska. One the real season in Nebraska is about 4 weeks.  When it rains in Nebraska during this so called season you cannot play because of lightning. It is hot as hell there now. Scotland has a good 6 to 9 month golf season as does Bandon. Nebraska is not on the ocean either. I will be surprised if the you build it and they will come concept will carry beyond about 6 to 8 courses before the market dries up for great golf in a bad bad place. I do agree the 4 or 5 near each other actually does benifit the whole as per providing a market strong enough to support infrastructure like hotels etc.

[RJ_Daley]

Now  if all the clubs got together and offered a membership package plus the courses being open to the public every 3rd or 4th day on a rotating basis, or a national membership for all, throw in Ballyneal, I'd pony up in a milli second...

I love that thought Cary.  But, it seems that the ownership-developers of these various clubs are quite disparate in their goals and personalities.  Perhaps after some windng out period of 5+ years where they are all fully operational, a summit of sorts between managements might take place if all the negatives of isolated location, available staffing, and long term environmental issues come to pass.

I think you folks that see weather as a limitting factor are wrong.  The season out there is longer than the great lakes area  both in spring and fall.  As a matter of fact, April and Oct-Nov may be the most ideal golf weather there, IMHO.  It is no hotter there than Philidelphia.  All things considered, I'd rather be in Mullen when it is 95*.  Lots more wind and less humidity.  Nothing like morning or twilight on the prairie lads...

[corey miller]

Please explain to me how public access to these courses should work considering the fact that the clubs are asking people to spend $50,000 to join and might only make it out to play once a year?  

[Brad Tufts]

I ask the same question as Corey, as the article and Nicklaus both seem to assume this area can become a destination.  The fact that there are three clubs may attract more memberships if there are opportunities for members of one to play at all three on a limited basis, but I do not see a provision for public access of any kind.  They seem to be saying that "someone should build a resort here" because of the relatively low land costs and good golf course land, but their developers did not take that chance.  Above all, I wonder how this is a national story of merit, as these clubs only are interesting to the GCA crowd, not the public golfer at large.

[RJ_Daley]

Corey, that would be very hard to explain at $50K membership.  Based only on speculation, I wonder if a limitted public access, daily fee, CCFAD model would work on that sort of rotating open access basis, where the daily fees would offset the national member's fee to a large and more attractive extent.  

For instance, if each of those 4 clubs had an open day, SH Monday, Dismal, Tues, Prairie Wed, Bally Thurs and all closed to public and open only to members the weekends and other 3 days a week, wouldn't that be enough time for the national members?  If by reservation, a relatively full tee sheet of 100 players at $150 a pop one day a week for 20 weeks (say 300K) would go a long ways towards the limitted maintenance budget those courses have by comparison to bigtime urban clubs. A national member plays there how many times a year?  I'll bet not more than 10-15 on average.  There'd be plenty of open tee times, it seems to me.  If you are going to play a place 10-15 times a year, wouldn't you rather pay half of the current dues intitiation and give up one day a week tee times?

Of course, this doesn't address the private club IRS tax and corporate organizational rules.

[corey miller]

As a member, I would rather spend $1000 a year more and keep the club totally private.  If I can make my yearly trip and play four courses in four days  at $200 a pop why join any of the clubs?

What happens when I have my first 4.5 round because of the knucklehead in front of me?  Myrtle Beach in Nebraska.

[RJ_Daley]

Corey, all these things are relative.  For instance, I have played at Sand Hills, as an escorted guest, when there were only about  10-12 4somes playing there in total, and the round was in the vicintiy of 4.5 hours.  Yet, a timely round wasn't a consideration for any of the folks I was with, to my understanding.  In fact, most of us would have liked the time to go slower.  

It is all about personal preferences and what one's particular level of financial comfort is, in my view.  For instance, If I had a moderately comfortable professional level of income, and 50K was about as much as I'd spend cash on a car or boat, I wouldn't mind the idea of one day a week, my club was open to public, for the benefit augmenting costs of operations.  That day I could opt to go to the other club that had recipricals, as I understand Cary's proposition above.  As a national member, that conflict week probably wouldn't only occur a few times a year anyway.  When that club had its open day, I'd expect a few of the other reiprocal clubs members to come over to our place.  In fact, I would look at the member dues as a value added feature if we had reasonable workable recipricals with the other area Sand Hill facilities.  I'd even think that the value of the membership would be worth it to meet and develop friends and competitive rivalries with the other club's memberships.  The more I think of it, the more I like the proposal set forth by Cary if legalistic and structural provisions could be worked out.  The potential for interclub matches is very intriguing.

I also like the idea of open to the public that one day a week, by reservation or letter request because if you happen to be there at that time, you meet many interesting people.  

While I would decide to specifically join one of those clubs for a significant initiation fee because I would make a determination that I liked their specific membership culture and unique values, I would see the open day as a bonus for the diversity it would bring.  I wouldn't feel gipped if I paid an initiation fee and the outside, unescorted guest by reservation paid like $150-200. Particulary, if the intitiation fee had a trasfer, buyback or recovery feature to it.

I wonder how many folks wouldn't be a national member if there were any hint of an open day a week, and liberal recipricals with the other area clubs.

[David_Tepper]

We have discussed the economics of these courses before on a couple of threads.  I continue to wonder where all the "national members" willing to part with $50,000 for 6-8 rounds of golf a year will come from. Are there that many private jets?

[corey miller]

Not sure David, but there will certainly be less if the courses are open on a daily fee basis.  Maybe, just maybe a certain element that joins this club does not want to see Joe Sixpack or Mary Wineglass(thanks Matt w.) regardless of how much they "revere the architecture".  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Re the "economic model"

I just returned from a Colorado trip. Both Red Sky and Cordiellera, high end private clubs, allow resort access to guests at affiliated hotels. I believe the "economic model" for these private clubs is additional "cash flow."

All that is needed is a Marriott nearby.

[Dan Smoot]

I would like to echo the statement of others.  This is not a destination for anyone unless golf is available to everyone willing to pay a package or daily fee at an acceptable (?) cost.  I have been to Bandon 4 times with other golf fanatics, so if you build something of great value, people will come and come again.  Even now, Bandon is not a trip I can afford without much consideration and planning.  If a location is special, you make other sacrifices and go.  

I have driven from Valentine to Gothenburg and everything they say about this landscape for golf is true (in my limited analysis).  There is great opportunity as a destination that I personally would add to my list of special trips if someone like a Mike Keiser has a vision for Nebraska.  It will not be a destination if only a priviledged few (no malice here) can afford it.  I consider Nebraska development a parallel to Bandon for remoteness and golf potential (maybe even more).  I don't see it becoming a location for real estate development creating an influx of permanent residents.  I just hope it doesn't become a mecca of private/no access courses dotting the landscape.

[Doug Siebert]

David,

I don't think one needs to be in the private jet category to wish to be a national member of one of those clubs.  I could see doing it, and I'd be making a 500 mile drive from Iowa.  There are some major cities within a reasonable day's drive: Denver, Omaha, Kansas City, Minneapolis.  Maybe Chicago and St. Louis if you get a few people to rotate as drivers.  It may be inconvenient for those on the coasts, but them's the breaks.  You guys have easy access to plenty of courses, now its your time to suffer


From the article:

''I see this part of the United States becoming a remote destination for high-quality golf, especially with the likelihood that terrorism is never going to abate in our lifetime," he said. ''The hundreds of thousands of people who seek a pure golf experience who now to go the British Isles are going to look for something safe and central."

So terrorism is now a reason for people to play golf in Nebraska instead of Scotland?  You've GOT to be kidding me!  The media sure is over-hyping this "risk" for someone to come up with that jewel of a quote to a reporter...sheesh!

[Jason Hines]

Several are correct that we keep bringing this topic up.  Dick has some valid and agreeable wishes; the only thing I would like to add is a handicapped or reciprocity with other private clubs. However, that probably will not happen, we will more than likely see what has happened everywhere else in the U.S.  Semiprivate, Munis and completely private.  

As we have beaten to death before, the Wild Horse model can be copied (Semiprivate) and it is obvious that the SH model is being copied. (Private)  I cannot tell you how many people I know here in Nebraska that are not Memorial to Labor Day, cart golfers that are waiting for the opportunity to play a Sand Hills.  We will be repeat business to the future clubs.

Jason

P.S.  Terrorism? Omaha was second on Timothy McVee’s list.  

[David_Tepper]

Doug Siebert -

Just out of curiousity, do you know of any golf clubs in any of the mid-west cities you mention (St. Louis, KC, Chicago, etc.) that charge a $50,000 initiation fee? I could be totally mistaken, but my guess is there are very few. I have a hard time imagining that very many people (investment bankers & hedge fund managers aside), living in any of these cities and belonging to one of the finer local clubs there, are going to be very interested in paying a $50,000 initiation fee (maybe twice what they paid to join their local club) to join a club they might visit 2 or 3 times a year and have to drive 6, 8 or 10 hours to get to. I thought people in America's heartland were supposed to have more common sense than that!

DT    

[Scott_Burroughs]

For those speculating about The Prairie Club's privacy policy and possibilities of outside play allowed, these are direct quotes from the club's web site:

"The Prairie Club is a private remote destination with a planned national membership approximating 350 players.
Limited reciprocal play will be initially allowed, with conversion to an equity structure anticipated thereafter."

and also:

"And while a private club is envisioned, play would initially include designated days in which players with membership elsewhere could be admitted with a call or letter from their home professional. Provisions for youth golf and Evans Scholarships are intended."

http://www.prairieclub.com/


I recall that initially, the club stated that one course would
be private and one would be open to the public, but
apparently that has changed.  Get out there early!

[Tom_Doak]

I saw a statistic a couple of months ago that there are something like 200,000 people in America who reported income of over $5 million last year ... and I would be willing to bet that more than the normal 10% of them play golf.  So, there is some money out there.

All these other clubs are being developed because there is the feeling that if Sand Hills had 1,000 more memberships available, they could sell them for $50K each.  I'm not sure if that is an unreasonable assumption or not, but it does assume the courses in question will be on the same level as Sand Hills, which is hard to guarantee.  [They have the potential to be that good, but they've still got to do it.]

The brave talk about the area becoming a golf destination is just posturing to get a newspaper article written, because the paper isn't going to report on a single high-dollar private venture.  Sand Hills really isn't competition for the other courses being built out there, because their membership is full ... but the others are certainly competing with each other for the same pool of potential members, and if they say they're happy that others are building competition, they're either lying or at a minimum, supremely overconfident.

The Sand Hills area COULD become a golf destination in time, but only if someone has the guts to build some public courses there and find out the hard way.  It may yet happen; I know a couple of people who are considering it.

[A_Clay_Man]

So the only isssue is an airport and places to stay. If you use Bandon as the premiere model, this area will succeed big time.

Succeeding big time on a commercial and fiduciary basis, is not my idea of success. Quite the catch 22

An airport would only diminish the tranquility of what's already there, SH.  

[Craig Van Egmond]

I do think that some of the attractiveness of Sand Hills (other than the golf course) is that it is so remote and that you really have to go out of your way to get there. I think if it was easy to get there, some of that mystique may be lost.

[Tony_Chapman]

Craig - It's three hours from my house, Wild Horse is less than two and I can tell you there is still mystique!!! It ain't that remote for me.  

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tony,

    Glad to hear it.. you are one of the lucky ones.  Here in Oklahoma it seems so close.. yet so far away. Now Prairie Dunes is only 3 hours away and that is something special too.

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