[Paul_Turner]

Actually there are two other "Addingtons" in addition to Abercromby's greatest course (see Ran's profile).  Addington Court and Addington Palace.

Here's a link to Addington Palace, designed by JH Taylor.  

Like Aber's course, it looks to have some exciting terrain.

http://www.addingtonpalacegolf.co.uk/page7.aspx

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I love Abercromby's The Addington.  I am a bit confused.  Is this course near The Addington?  Wasn't there another one adjacent the The Addington?  It is NLE I believe.

I love your posts and pictures, but other than that tight short uphill par 4, I didn't see anything to keep me from just playing The Addington a second time.

[Tom Kelly]

I played The Addington few weeks back, searching GCA for it I stumbled across this thread and thought Addington Palace might interest a few of you so I've dug out a few photos and some Google Earth aerials to cobble together a course tour.

First things first, Addington Palace isn’t The Addington but it does at times play through some interesting terrain similar to its more illustrious neighbour and with abit of tlc I think it could be a really solid course with a few real highs. Unfortunately a poor/dull start and finish are always likely to hold it back.

Designed by Fred Hawtree and J H Taylor in 1930 the course starts out climbing the hill away from the Palace towards quite severe rolling terrain adjacent to the western boundary of The Addington and its famous 12th and 13th holes. This is where the best part of the course is found, though hemmed in by far too many trees at present and with a mish-mash of uninspired bunker styles there a couple of holes of real interest. After coming back to the palace an awkward walk around the palace leaves the remainder of the course on the mainly flatter land to the south of The Addington’s 7th and 8th holes. The holes closest to this boundary provide the most interest with 14, 15 and 16 having the potential to be a nice stretch along the side of the hill. Sadly some odd details like the rather bizarre fountain on the 12th and a very mundane finish in 17 and 18 leave you wandering what happened to the course.

Before I get going there is more info/history and some good photos on the clubs website;

http://www.addingtonpalacegolf.co.uk/TheCourse/CourseGuide.aspx#

[Tom Kelly]

Course layout 2013


Course Layout 1945


You'll notice straight away that there has been a change in the front 9 layout between 1945 and present day. The current first is a new hole built in 1954 to accommodate the move to the current clubhouse site. This meant that what appear to be the 8th and 9th were turned into a single long par 5 hole played down the hill. Otherwise apart from excessive tree growth/planting and a number of bunkers disappearing the course is as it was in 1945.  From the club website though it appears that at some point probably before this the front nine was played in a different order although over the same holes. The holes labelled 1, 8, 9 & 10 formed the first four holes before playing the rest loop in the same order and then coming back to the 11th before heading around the clubhouse the remaining holes.

1st
Being a new forced hole the 1st is a dull start to the round filling the space between the clubhouse and original 1st tee. Uphill at 179 yards it is not a bad hole but nothing to write home about.


2nd
The 2nd would have been a monster of an opener when the course was first built playing 439 yards up a severe hill and through some rolling valleys. Whilst quite a good hole, I can see it being a slog for many.








3rd
This is where the course gets going. A short four played down into a deep valley before climbing to a small green perched into the side of the hill.


A poorly thought out back tee makes the tee shot blind over a cliff like forward tee.


The view from the forward tee. The green has been blocked from view by trees growing in from the right side.


Looking up to the green, complete with horrendous pathway.


More to follow.

[Michael Felton]

I've played The Addington and Addington Palace a few times. The layout at the Addington is great (except for the long hole down the hill - 12 - don't like that hole), but the conditioning when I was playing it was awful. The greens were probably not even a 5 on the stimp. So frustrating. Addington Palace had fantastic greens that were blindingly quick and true, but the layout was not my favourite.

That second hole that has a big slope in the fairway for example. If you hit driver the ball would hit into the slope, which killed it and then it rolled down the hill behind the copse of trees on the right. There was basically nowhere that shot would finish other than blocked. So the only way to play it was to hit a shot off the tee that would go about 220 to the bottom of the hill and then leave you with a 220 yard uphill blind 2nd shot. Not my cup of tea.

Then after that, the trees were so encroaching that the course was nigh on unplayable (for me at any rate). One loose shot and you lost your ball and there are too many 4 and 5 iron tee shots on par 4s for my liking. I don't mind that every now and again, but repeatedly it just got too much. A couple of holes that were probably driveable, but with the trouble around, it just wasn't the play.

The Addington on the other hand has trouble and many places not to hit it, but it always feels expansive and not claustrophobic (except maybe . Never felt like I was an idiot pulling driver out. It's not always the right play, but it's never suicide (again - except perhaps on 8 and maybe 9, but for a very different reason than at AP).

[Tom Kelly]

Michael,

The claustrophobic nature and the holes with quirk and interest (especially the short ones I assume you are referring to hitting 4 or 5 iron off) are partly what I found interesting about Addington Palace, as all I could think about was what the holes would have been like originally with more space. It came to mind even more so after playing The Addington and seeing the similarity in some of the land used. Don't you think the 3rd could be a great short par 4 if it had more space(/fewer trees) approaching and around the green?

Having played The Addington a few weeks back I can report that the conditioning wasn't bad, especially considering the weather and time of year, but there is plenty more tree clearance that could be done.

[Tom Kelly]

4th
Another short par 4 running along the valley below the famous 13th at The Addington.


Playing across the side of the hill the ideal line to approach the green is from as close to left side of the fairway as possible though any attempts to keep tight to this side risk being stuck on the steep slope leaving an awkward lie to hit from. It makes me wonder whether the high and short left side was cut as fairway originally? Potentially driveable at only 312 yards.


The green is tucked neatly into the side of the hill. There is a pond hidden behind the trees on the right.


Pond and green in the 30's.

Photo linked from http://www.addingtonpalacegolf.co.uk/History/Photohistory.aspx#


5th
A rolling short 4 completing the trio with a blind tee shot and huge valley short of the green.


Tee Shot.


Approach. Anything over 220ish yards from the tee will see the ball descending into the valley below. At only 313 yards a 200 yards tee shot to the brow of the hill leaves a short but daunting wedge into the green, don't come up short.


The view from the valley bottom.


Looking back down the hole. The greens aren't anything to write home about but offer interest throughout and are well kept.



6th
A good mid length 4, dogleg right played down and then up through a valley.

Another tee shot impeeded by tees and trees.



A comparison of the current and 1945 aerials show how much the trees have grown in on the right, blocking the view of the fairway bunkering and also shows the loss of the random bunker shaping. It is apporox 240 yards to carry the right bunkers from the back tee so well in reach if the line was opened up.



The view up the fairway from left of the landing area including the right side bunkering blocked out by the foliage from the tee.


Drop off on left side of the green. The 1945 aerial photo shows a bunker at the front left of the green possibly occupying some of this valley along the edge of the green. It is the clear the best line in was intended to be from the right half of the fairway close to the fairway bunkers.


Looking back down the hole.

[Tom Kelly]

7th
A fairly dull par 3 that used to be surrounded by wild bunkering. The front bunker in the present day aerial is not in my photos as it has been removed.

2013


1945





8th
My favourite hole on the course.




Yet another poorly considered tee extension.


A split level fairway favours those who keep on the high right side and challenge the bunkers.




The current bunkering looks tired in places, especially when looking at the 1945 aerial photo.



9th
The old 8th and 9th appear to have been a interesting looking sub 300 yard par 4 and a drop shot par 3 of a round 200 yards. The current 9th is a 500 yard very reachable par 5 played along the top of the hill to where the old 8th green would have been before dissappearing down to the green next to the 2nd (old 1st) tee.






The old 8th looks to have been an interesting short par 4 played to the right side of the brow of the hill.

[Tom Kelly]

10th
Similar to the 1st but on slightly tamer land the 10th again climbs the hill away from the palace.


11th
The last of the holes east of the palace, the 11th is an interesting mid length par which unfortunately leads to an awkward green to tee walk around the palace to the 12th. The 1945 Aerial shows the presence of a 'top'shot' bunker which has been removed but it's presence is still obvious to this day.




Playing over a road, the hole climbs slightly to the green protected by bunkers.



12th
The striking 12th, complete with fountain....


The original bunkering looks quite different.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tom Thanks for this I've long been curious.  Looks like there's a lot of wait and see where the ball finishes followed by fun recovery options.


I profiled another Hawtree  Taylor course here.  Both seem to have some interesting land features and sadly generic bunkering.  However Hainault is not nearly as chocked and I'm assuming your photo’s were from last winter when the trees are less imposing.

(Forgot I profiled both the Hainault courses he did. Today the search function is linking to the Upper, generally considered the lesser of the two courses.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,26516.0.html




What length was 7 when it was surrounded by bunkers?


Have you played Selsdon Park?  It's nearby and I have very fond memories of it.  However it was just at the start of my interest in GCA and I wonder how it stands up. Again it's credited in 1929 to Taylor.  I also really, really like Chigwell, 1925.  However his architecture work petered out in the 1930's with nothing after WW11, even though he lived until 1963.


When I think about it, all these suburban tracks feature some pretty extreme land for inland courses.  Land that wouldn't be be so easy to develop for housing?

Finally congratulation for taking a picture that is bound to be reproduced on GCA many times.  I tempted to ask what were they …..

[Thomas Dai]

Nice thread. Lots of work with the old and new overheads plus the photos. Thanks for sharing.

This 3rd hole appears to be one tight fairway. How does the hole play under normal wind conditions? Is there a flattish area at the corner of the dog-leg and if so, and you've successfully laid-up to that area, what length of shot do you have into the green? Also, should your ball end up in the area to the right of the pathway is the ball in a hazard or is it play it as it lies?

All the best.

PS - If they do christenings at Addington Palace then presumably the fountain on the 12th hole comes in useful!

[Michael Felton]

Tom,

I do think that the course would benefit a lot from having some trees cleared out. Or at least some of the scrub underneath them. I am biased though because the last time I played there I was playing badly and just couldn't get it in play.

Thomas,

The 3rd is tight, but not as tight as 4 and 5 if memory serves. Also if memory serves, the 3rd from the back tee was about a 3 iron (it's quite steeply downhill, so could be as much as 250 to the bottom of the hill where it turns), down to a spot that doesn't really have anywhere flat to play from unless you get all the way down there, but to do that I think you had to flirt with the trees on the right. Right of the green is play it as it lies if you can find it. Cannot miss it to the right of that path.

[Tom Kelly]

Tony,

First of all your welcome. Yes there is lots of waiting to see where you've ended up especially on the section from 3-8. It's a pity that the lay of the land meant that 3,4 & 5 had to be back to back with each other as I can see each being a really good short 4, but with them coming one after another I can see Michael's complaint ringing true. Consecutive blind long irons off tees to excessively narrow landing areas, especially in the current state of the course could really start to wear. You were right about the photos being from last winter, I dread to think how narrow some spots must look in full bloom?!

Hainault looks really interesting and it looks like it might be a good spot to take a couple of my mates living in north London who are learning the game? It sounds like exactly the type of course(s) that the 'growing the game'/'cheap build' threads would like to see being built now.

I haven't played any of the others you mention but having looked at the Hainault thread it is interesting to hear that the others are also on pretty severe terrain, your theory about housing does make some sense. The others will have to go on my huge 'to see' list but it appears Hawtree and Taylor were good at getting over the hills but as you say rather generic in their bunker placement. It would be interesting to see some old photos of Addington Palace from the 30's or 40's to see how the more random shaping seen in the aerial appeared on the ground.  

From what I can make out on the 1945 aerial the 7th played probably a touch shorter than today at around 140ish yards. The front bunkers also appear to be well forward of the green perhaps foreshortening the view of the green and creating some dead ground. I'd love to see an old photo!

I can't be sure but looking back at the old 1945 aerial there is something visible that may be the offending fountain, could it be a left over from the palace's original garden before the course was built?


Thomas,

Michael is right the 3rd is tight from the tee but not as bad as 4 or especially 5. The fairway all funnels down to the spot you see in the picture short of the bunker and most will be left with an awkward down/sideslope lie for their second. If you thought the drive was tight though,  the approach to 3 is just silly. anything right is 'in play' but dead and I wouldn't be suprised if a few get not so friendly bounces off that eyesore of a path. Open the right hand side right up and it could be a really fun hole.

Michael,

I can see how that front nine can really beat you up if you not on your game.

[Frank Pont]

Cool course, need to go and see next time I visit Tandridge.

There are historic pics of the old bunkering, see:

http://www.addingtonpalacegolf.co.uk/History/Photohistory.aspx#

Bunkers not as beautiful and refined as Colt and Simpson's work, but still pretty good

[Tom Kelly]

Cool course, need to go and see next time I visit Tandridge.

There are historic pics of the old bunkering, see:

http://www.addingtonpalacegolf.co.uk/History/Photohistory.aspx#

Bunkers not as beautiful and refined as Colt and Simpson's work, but still pretty good

Good spot Frank, that page slipped past me. The 1930's photo of the 15th looks awesome!


It appears I've got the historical routing slightly wrong too then as it looks like the holes that the new 9th replaced were original played as 2 & 3 rather than 8 & 9 as I had assumed. They then must have crossed the road to the current 3rd being played as the 4th and come back to the 11th playing the current 8th as the 10th...if that makes sense?!

Also the fountain on 12 is there in the photo from the 30's and the 3rd looks like it was overgrown by the 60's....

[Tom Kelly]

13th
A par 5 playing slightly uphill, it was originally one of only two 5's both of which where on the back nine. Did the 1st or 10th originally play as par 5's? It's length as with the 18th is used to cover some of the less interesting ground as quickly as possible. A few bunkers have dissappeared over the years.





14th
Back into a run of more interesting quirky holes. An intriguing par 4 played around a hill to a slim green protected by a large tree. Tight right is the best line from the tee.





The presence of the old bunkering is obvious adjacent to the recently re-furbished yet drab looking existing bunker. The bunkering makes the approach semi-blind, foreshortening the look of the shot.





15th
Playing alongside and below The Addington's infamous 8th, the 15th is a driveable par 4 which hugs the hill and could do with some help from a chainsaw. Could be great fun.






An extremely tight green.


Back in the 30's!!!!!

Photo linked from: http://www.addingtonpalacegolf.co.uk/History/Photohistory.aspx

Both of the short fairway bunkers in the photo and all but one of the left greenside bunkers appear to have been lost by the time the 1945 aerial was taken, perhaps due to lack of maintenance during the war years?

[Tom Kelly]

16th
A testing 180 yard par 3 played across the side of the hill below The Addington's fantastic 7th.


The 1945 shot hints at more bunkering front left and the move forward of todays front right trap.


Another nice green benched into the hillside.


Fairly dull bunkering, another hole with great potential....



17th
The dissappointing closing stretch. A straight forward 4 played over flat ground, through what was clearly an old entrance road to the palace flanked by trees. The old aerial shows some interesting looking bunkering from the tee which has since been removed.





18th
Not much more interesting than its predecessor, the ground is perhaps sensibly covered briskly by a solid par 5 closer which doesn't appear to have changed too much over the years.

[Tom Kelly]

In conclusion Addington Palace is a flawed course. The land is a vast mix from almost overly severe slopes to virtually flat areas, which combined with the limited space has led to a less than ideal routing with some awkward stretches of holes that lack variety and flow. Excessive tree growth has made a number of holes almost unplayable in areas and the loss and transformation of the bunkering to generic round blobs is a sad sight. But having said all of this Addington Palace has some potentially fantastic golf holes hidden in the foliage. With abit of work I see no reason why 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15 & 16 couldn't all happily stand alongside holes from the famous neighbour, The Addington and that's not a bad start.

Worth popping your head in on the way past.

[Michael Felton]

15 looks like it was a great hole in the 1930s. I'd love to play that hole like that. I suspect if they cleared out some of the scrub and the trees, my opinion of the course would improve significantly. If it was open like it was 80 years ago I think it would be a great deal of fun.

Thanks for posting the pics Tom - was an interesting ride.

[Adam Lawrence]

Looking at the old photos on the club website the fountain on the 12th was there in the 30s. Presumably was part of the palace gardens?

[Thomas Dai]

15 looks like it was a great hole in the 1930s. I'd love to play that hole like that. I suspect if they cleared out some of the scrub and the trees, my opinion of the course would improve significantly. If it was open like it was 80 years ago I think it would be a great deal of fun.
Thanks for posting the pics Tom - was an interesting ride.

+1. Damn good. Well done Tom.
All the best

[Frank Pont]

The holes 12-16 are great, so much potential, reminds me of when I first saw Tandridge.

Would love to work on this course!

[Tom Kelly]

The holes 12-16 are great, so much potential, reminds me of when I first saw Tandridge.

Would love to work on this course!

So would I! It's a pity there isn't more space to sort out some of the logistics of the course, the 1st and the practice area etc. but there are some really good holes out there just waiting to be rediscovered.

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