[John_Conley]

Average age of the 8 quarterfinalists = 19
Oldest is 22

Define compete.  



The U.S. Amateur Public Links Championship has been an unqualified success since its inception in 1922, giving exposure to many public-course players who otherwise might not have an opportunity to compete in a national championship.

The championship's prime mover was James D. Standish Jr., of Detroit, who convinced his colleagues on the 1922 USGA Executive Committee that the time was right for such a grass-roots competition. Standish pointed to the public-course golfer, whose ranks were swelling following World War I, and to the growing number of municipal and daily-fee courses in America.

...

The championship continues to attract bus drivers, bartenders, firemen, waiters, riveters, engineers, and college professors. It has also been a springboard for the likes of U.S. Open champions Ed Furgol, Tommy Bolt, and Ken Venturi; British Open champion Tony Lema; PGA champions Dave Marr and Bobby Nichols; and Masters winner George Archer. In 1959, it produced the first black winner of a USGA championship in William A. Wright, who later became a golf instructor.
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[Tommy_Naccarato]

John,
How is it broken?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Better yet, Why is it broken?

[A_Clay_Man]

John, Seems reasonable to assume that high school and college kids today do not and have not entered the workforce. Nor taken on the Joys of (reads vagaries) a family. Therfore they do have a huge edge on being able to hone their game for tournament conditions. Where the bus driver, bartender et al, do not.

also,


Stephen Pressfield wrote about ones "authentic swing" in "The Legend of Bagger Vance". And I belleive he makes a corrolation to the unimpeded spirit of youth and the golf swing.

[John_Conley]

Tommyknockers:

While it may "attract bus drivers, bartenders, firemen, waiters, riveters, engineers, and college professors", we obviously aren't seeing as many of them when it attracting the daughter of a college professor who will never work for a wage in her life.

[Scott Stearns]

while the championship proper is dominated by college kids, the qualifying and the stroke play portion of the tournament remain bastions of the joe lunchbucket golfer.

this year's qualifier at Bethpage attracted 192 contestants trying to get one of five spots.  Most of them people who have tried to get in for years and look forward to the annual attempt, however unlikely.  the group is MOSTLY older players, and includes, restaurant owners, wall street hedge fund managers, and a lot of guys with no visible means of support.  One guy carries a gallon jug of water around the course.

the people at Bethpage are very generous about closing a course down, and the superintendent and green staff take great pride in cutting and rolling the greens and otherwise peaking the course, just like a pvt club would.  Many people who otherwise would never get to play in any sort of competition come off the 18th green wondering why they couldn't shoot the same 74 they post with their buddies every weekend--they get a little taste of how different golf becomes when the flag goes up on the flagpole and there's a rules official announcing your name on the first tee.

the qualifiers are mostly college kids, yes, but one in four or five are people with jobs.  Bethpage sent a player to the championship this year who is a software salesman and who took the game back up last year after a 25 year layoff.  He shot a 40 on the final nine to miss the match play by a single shot, choking all the way, and had the time of his life.  He will remember the week forever.  Almost every year Bethpage has at least one story like this, and i'd guess there are lots of others around the country too.  One year it was a retired fireman.  Both of these players, and i'll guess all the older guys, take a great deal of pride in being able to beat their way through the college kids and take a spot away from them.

The tournament could become a sort of "publinx mid-amateur" by moving to the fall, but the quality of play would drop dramatically, and i for one think the older guys like to play against the best anyway.

The USGA runs 13 championships (i think) but this one is different.  Its not completely about identifying the best golfer, best girl junior golfer, etc.  A big part of this one is celebrating public golf, which is 3/4 of the golf courses and i think 2/3 of the golf played in the US.  Most of this celebration you dont see because its over before the match play begins.  

You're right-college golfers win it all the time, they have privliges that in many ways are much BETTER than membership at a private club, amateurism is dead, cats and dogs are sleeping together, etc.  so what.  This could all be fixed or the championship could simply be cancelled, but before you argue for doing all this, consider the good the tournament does at the grassroots level, before the TV coverage begins.

[Steve Lang]

 

Let's not forget S.P. Jermain's sponsorship (aka Mr. Inverness) and the first venue.. venerable Ottawa Park in Toledo, Ohio (vintage 1899 for front 9, finished 18 by SPJ in 1916) rumored to have been helped by Ross before Ross came to do work at Inverness ...

..and fact that there was barefoot competitor given shoes and also a death just off course from a woman scorned.. great theatre from beginning eh?

[Brent Hutto]

Shivas,

You're certainly correct about the ultimately nonsensical rationale for this event. I'd never understood how it was different from the US Amateur until the runup to this year's tournament. My first reaction was "What's up with that..." but I assumed it had some no longer salient historical basis. But then its history really doesn't go back that far anyway so it's just sort of an oddball thing.

[Jerry Kluger]

It seems that qualifying to make the field was very tough as it was pointed out that only 5 players made it at Bethpage so I have to presume that these are top amateurs.  My question then is why were the scores for the match playing qualifying so high? These top amateurs are really good, needless to say a lot better than me, yet the scores were much higher than I thought they would be.  Should we expect equally high scores at the USAM?

[John_Conley]

while the championship proper is dominated by college kids, the qualifying and the stroke play portion of the tournament remain bastions of the joe lunchbucket golfer.

this year's qualifier at Bethpage attracted 192 contestants trying to get one of five spots.  Most of them people who have tried to get in for years and look forward to the annual attempt, however unlikely.  the group is MOSTLY older players, and includes, restaurant owners, wall street hedge fund managers, and a lot of guys with no visible means of support.  

the qualifiers are mostly college kids, yes, but one in four or five are people with jobs.  

And that's your definition of compete?

[john_stiles]

The public links model does seems long broken.

Just consider the college players alone.

Most of the college golfers have some portion or all of their school expenses paid and paid only if their level of play (and practice) is sufficiently proficient. If you are good enough, you are paid.  Many colleges have their own ‘private course' (not open to the public) for play.  Many have their own ‘private' practice facilities, not open to the public. Most have access to all the area private courses and the college players pay nothing to play.

As others have enumerated,  the college players have swing coaches, receive free clubs, balls, etc., and receive special consideration from the equipment manufacturers.

College players should not be eligible for the USGA Publinx.  So, my first step towards a fix or towards a 'public links' championship would be to eliminate college players.

Then you could take the next step and eliminate the paid college players from all amateur events.

It is a convoluted mess, this business of an amateur player and a publinx championship.

I agree with the previous post as to private club members.  All a private club member has that a ‘public' golfer does not,  is the privilege of paying a lot more for golf for arguably ‘better' conditions, perhaps easier access to a tee time, and hopefully a ‘better' course in their mind.

[Scott Stearns]

Responding to John's post, If the APL's usefulness is judged by the last 10 champions, or even the last few 64 person match play fields, then its easy to agree that the event has lost its purpose.  

My point is that competition is not just about identifying champions.  your comment reminds me of the sick feeling i've had each morning this week as ESPN has gone to commercial with "Michelle Wie is just 6 matches from the Masters!" or some such thing, when Michelle's making the match play, and making the quarters are great achievements in themselves.

I also disagree with the thought that public players have basically the same opportunities as members of clubs.  In the midwest the difference is a lot smaller, but anybody trying to find a practice range on Long Island that has a grass tee (with grass still on it), balls that approximate the flight of an actual three piece ball and is open to the public will tell you there is a huge difference.

If your point is that college kids can beat the crap out of people with jobs, we figured that out 25 years ago.

Eliminating college players would return the event, at least a little bit, to its roots, but the quality of player making the 156 person field would go down a LOT, particularly if it were done for the women (this is not a value judgment.  Its a reality of drawing 156 players across 50 states from the pool of over 25 women publinx players-not a big group when you leave NYC, LA, Chicago and the other big cities)

[John_Conley]

Scott:

College players can beat people with jobs?  Yes.  So how about raising the age and excluding former professionals.  This event does not have an identity.  It is now an extension of the US Am and NCAA individual championship.

Some changes might make it too much like the Mid-Am.

The USGA needs to figure out if "Public Links" is still relevant period.  It may not need fixing, it may need to be taken out and shot.

Martin Ureta came to the United States for the express purpose of pursuing a professional golf career.  That Hawaiian a/c repair man is who the event is for.

[Steve Lang]

 

I buy that its broken now,.. the roots though were egalitarian at the time, there was a social movement in some cities to provide for labor class amenities like public parks etc.. Ottawa Park in Toledo was a model.. a major problem at time was getting trolley line out there from downtown!

p.s. didn't palmer grow up on a country club course where father Deacon was pro and didn't he as a boy hit balls over some creek for the ladies???  sounds like privledged experience there...

tossing the college team players would go a long way to fixing the thing .. as would rigidly imposing that $ number so thoroughly flaunted now..

[john_stiles]

Scott,

The USGA sometimes reacts very slowly. Figuring this out 25 years ago,  makes the year 2007 about the right time frame to finally fix it.

And like someone pointed out, maybe some events fade away.  If women's publinx is not supported, the USGA could refocus on growing the game or maybe eliminate the event.

The committee should consider the first step, eliminating college players, and then go from there.

[Brent Hutto]

I try to avoid sounding like a broken record on the NCAA golf issue but my point of view is the presence of big-time college players renders the word "Amateur" as used by the USGA a bit of idiosyncratic jargon with no relation to the word as defined in the dictionary.

Just like eligibility criteria for the Public Links championship, the USGA uses the Humpty Dumpty principle for defining "Amateur", i.e. "it means just what [we] choose it to mean - neither more nor less". All of which is fine, it's their tournaments after all. But it does cause a certain cognitive dissonance when the bulk of contenders in their championships have a more financially comfortable and well attended-to lifestyle than the typical professional on the Nationwide tour.

[Scott Stearns]

lets not make this a new york vs. the country argument---i think findng good public practice facilities near the smog-surrounded ivory towers of LA is hard too.

I wish new york had 1/2 the opportunities for golf (at a reasnable price) that chicago has.

[RJ_Daley]

My idea of a amatuer is a person that likes to compete for the thrill of competing.  It doesn't matter what occupation or non-occupation, age, or gender.  If you love to play the game, at what ever level, you can find a competition.

Why do people feel they are entitled to play in a USGA sanctioned event, when there are so many competitors in pre-qualifying levels?  We all feel bad that the bartender or bus driver tried and just fell short.  And, it is the rare "tin cup" fairytale when one of these guys break through and catches lightening in a bottle and holds up in the pre-qualifying or makes the cut.  

But, there are so many local and state open amatuer events, club events, etc., that if you want to compete, you can find a toon-a-mint that is right for you.

Talent it talent.  If you are a beer truck driver and have the talent, you will rise.  But, you can't be upset because the professor's kid has more talent and time to practice.  That's life.

BTW, we just concluded our Wisconsin State Am at my home course, and once again the 57 year old Mark Bemowski won it for the 6th time and has won in four decades.  He won the the US SEnior Am last year, and passed on his exemptin to play in this weeks Public Links.  He is quoted as saying that "I'd hate to lose to Michelle Wie", and "I'd rather come up here and play. This means more to me".  The perfect definintion of loving to compete, and finding the level of competition you prefer or feel comfortable in.  There is enough competition out there to find it.

[Scott Stearns]

the amateur horse left the barn a long time ago (with a hat glove and ball deal from Titleist), and its not coming back.

I also think that killing the APL sends a horrible message about the USGA's commitment to public golf.

I thought we were trying to get the USGA to imporve it ivory tower image.  the last few posts don't seem to do so.

i dont feel bad that the beer man tried and fell short.  i think its great that the beer man got as far as he did.  Having met a number of them, they savor the experience.

and the number that make the tournament is closer to 25%--thats pretty good.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tommyknockers:

While it may "attract bus drivers, bartenders, firemen, waiters, riveters, engineers, and college professors", we obviously aren't seeing as many of them when it attracting the daughter of a college professor who will never work for a wage in her life.

John,
I appen to agree with you. Especially when you take the fact the transportation this paticular amateur is getting to and from the course, as well as the equipment she is receiving. I think back to the days when the USGA considered sportwriters, professionals.

But the enitre reason I ask is simply a conversation you and I had last year regarding a certain book and how you disagreed with many of the points of that book, which didn't call the Publinks out by name--but does question the motives of the organization that is running the event; and is allowing this college professor's daughter to live with the same immenities as a professional , all on a college professors salary.

The University of Hawaii must pay really good.

Also, Have you ever heard or seen in history of the Sport of Golf, an Executive Director of one of the sanctioning bodies of Golf give such preferential treatment to an amateur?

Something is rotten in Denmark. (Far Hills, New Jersey)

[Tommy_Naccarato]

BTW, Glad your on board!

[George Pazin]

You can find decent public practice facilities just about anywhere, but these decent facilities can't even begin to compare to the vast majority of practice facilities at the handful of private facilities I've seen. Plus, this public golfer is under the impression that there is no marginal cost to using these facilities.

One can disagree with the status of the APL - whether or not the winner "deserves" a Masters invite, etc. - but I think the goal is rather nice. Judging by the statements in JC's opening post, I'd say it sounds as if the APL has gone a little astray, but, as always, the solutions are rarely as simple as they seem.

[Brent Hutto]

So Tommy,

Do you think Michelle Wie's lifestyle is more conducive to good golf than that of the big-time college golfers in the PubLinks field? How much more benefit can she get from access to her world-famous swing coach than a college player gets from access to full-time coaching plus frequent work with famous swing teachers, short-game experts and mental-game consultants? I doubt she practices at any better facilities than the top college teams use.

Michelle Wie at age 15 is living golf in a very similar manner to most of her college-age opponents at age 19, 20, 21. She does it with more media attention and I'm sure that private plane that you guys obsess about has really comfortable seats but she isn't the only top amateur who gets treated like royalty compared to the much-invoked beer truck driver. How much difference ability to make a 10-footer for birdie can you attribute to that private plane ride?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Right on Georgie!

We need to reclaim the sport from every aspect of the way the USGA and the R & A have failed to properly govern and protect it.

[ChasLawler]

Pardon me if this has been mentioned before, but isn't Wie given a significant amount of access to certain private clubs in Hawaii?

Although not technically a member, shouldn't she be excluded from the Publinx for that privilege?

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