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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
How good is Loch Lomond?
« on: June 27, 2005, 11:08:56 AM »
LL is obviously thought very highly of in the UK.  For those folks who have played LL and the big guns elsewhere, where does LL stand?

Ciao

Sean
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Guy Corcoran, Jr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2005, 11:22:14 AM »
Totally different from anything in Scotland. Fantastic course! How it stacks up against other courses I'm sure is up for debate. Added bonus, Weiskopf almost bought the farm. Trapped in quick-sand for 5 hours. This is not a shot at Weiskopf this is probably his best work. Hands down!
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Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2005, 11:26:46 AM »
Loch Lomond is a wonderful strategic golf course, and a beautiful setting. Also a huge maintenace budget for UK standards. How good?
With Kingsbarn possibly the best courses to be built in the UK for some years.
Not sure how it can be compared to the rest of the world.
We visited the site for the new course a couple of years ago - do not think the site or the design is as good as the Weiskopf course.
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Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2005, 11:44:21 AM »
Johnny: Which new course are you referring to? The Loch Lomond folks bought another course, but I don't actually recall hearing anything about them buying or building a third.

Robert
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Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2005, 12:05:36 PM »
I think the Loch Lomond course that Jonny is referring to is the new Carrick course.  Maybe Ian Andrew can post some pics of the construction.

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2005, 12:07:22 PM »
Loch Lomond also own Dundonald in Ayr designed by Kyle Philips but have being trying to gain planning permission for a new course south of the existing course.
The course is to be designed by Jack Nicklaus - if they ever gain planning. I think planning has been going on for around 8 years?
The design has a couple of holes which border the loch side which could be really good. Although the last design I saw maybe will not be the final design because of planning restrictions.
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2005, 12:10:18 PM »
I believe Lyle Anderson (the owner of Loch Lomond) is building a 2nd course there, which will be designed by Jack Nicklaus. This is in addition to the purchase of the Dundonald Course (designed by Kyle Phillips) on the west coast of Scotland.

The DeVere Hotel group is also building a golf course on Loch Lomond, which is being designed by a Canadian GCA (Carrick?), I think.  
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Jonathan Davison

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Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2005, 12:10:19 PM »
Brian
The site was an introduction into routing/environmental restrictions for the diploma course.
I think last years MSC guys visited the Carrick course, they have photos of the site all over the studio at ECA.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 12:11:26 PM by jonny davison »
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2005, 12:21:41 PM »
Looks like the DeVere Hotel's Carrick Course on Loch Lomond will be open for play in 2006. They have a website up & running to preview the course. Here it is:

www.thecarrick.com
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Stuart Hallett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2005, 01:40:08 PM »
Can Loch Lomond be considered that good if it only offers acceptable playing conditions for very limited periods ?

I didn't play the course and only got to see a few holes, but moisture oozed from the surface with every step. The micro-climate at the Loch boasts an annual average of 70 inches of rainfall and very low evapo-transpiration rates, and a rising Loch that frequently floods the Loch shore (golf holes).

I have serious doubts about the longterm viability of courses at Loch Lomond, unless, the extravagant management costs are maintained. What happens when the novelty wears off ?

At the moment, there is quite simply, too much hype!
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sorley

Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2005, 01:53:23 PM »
Construction of the new course at Loch Lomond is supposed to start this September but it is looking more likely that it will start next spring. Its a Jack Nicklaus design. Some debate over how necessary another course is but they are selling membership packages on the back of it just now. With the selling point of being able to play either a links (Dundonald) a parkland (existing loch Lomond) or a heathland course (new Loch Lomond) depending on your whim.

The Carrick which is conected to Cameron House Hotel a little down the loch will apparently to be open for play this summer but again that timeframe is looking optimistic.
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grandwazo

Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2005, 01:54:18 PM »
i have three friends who are/have been members, two based in the states, and one in england.  of my friends in the states, one of them decided to pay up for the new deal, the other did not.  the one who took the deal goes over twice a year with business clients and generates enough business off those trips to rationalize the expense.

from what i have heard, it's the total experience that makes loch lomond a special place....the golf course on it's own may not be spectacular, but when you add the accomodations and the ambience it is supposed to be a special place.  it's not links, it's not heathland, it's something else altogether.

those that i have spoke to that played dundonald last year said the greens were just plain ridiculous, basically unplayable due to the slope and speed.  no one enjoyed the experience.

from what i have heard, to be a guest on the property and to play the golf course is a special experience.
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mikes1160

Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2005, 02:11:33 PM »
I had the good fortune of playing LL this past May and getting to spend time with Ken Siems, director of agronomy at LL and Dundonald and David Cole, LL superintendent. Ken and David are undertaking one of the most aggressive drainage projects I've ever witnessed (to combat the 80 plus inches of rain mentioned below) along with an aggressive top dressing program. Despite everything I had read previous to visiting LL, I didn't find the ground oozing with every step - quite the contrary.

On LL, the beauty of the course is matched by the breathtaking backdrops of the region. The Scottish Open is next week, so judge the course for yourself.......
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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2005, 05:01:18 PM »
After the round on the long drive to Dornoch, I came to the conclusion that the Americans who do not hold the course very highly have difficulty accepting parkland greatness in the land of links greatness.  I think it holds up to the greatest American courses.  I challenge anyone to find a weak hole.  The 10th and 14th are allworld short par 4's.  The par 3's are balanced--short and long , 2 mediums asking for different shots.  Reachable 5's with major trouble for missed second shots.  Three brutally tough long par 4's.  The beauty factor is off the charts. It is true the fairways were soggy, but they are working on improving the drainage.  In spite of a decent amount of rain, the greens were firm and putted as well as Nairn's!
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Paul Richards

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Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2005, 09:18:02 PM »
>How good is Loch Lomond?

It's a pretty special place.

A group of my friends are there right now.

Wish I were with them......

 :'( :'( ;) ;)
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

James Edwards

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Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2005, 08:33:02 AM »
The drivable 14th is truly one of the best short Par 4's in golf - Id almost go as far as to say, its up there with the 10th at Riviera although it has little comparison in terms of design.

Its tempts the best players every year to make the carry over one of the many wetland areas and like any great short par 4, produces 2's and 7's on a regular basis - and like any fine routing which utilises a short 4 IMHO, it is followed by a tough hole to say,

""youve had your easy hole now have a toughen!!""

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Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How good is Loch Lomond?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2005, 12:17:16 PM »
I heard from someone who was there recently that the new membership scheme has not panned out that well and, accordingly, that plans for the second course are on hold. Not sure if that is right or not.
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