[DTaylor18]

I recently returned from a mini golf trip to the Detroit area with another GCA'er, Peter Herreid. We both saw something that we had not experienced with any regularity before, which was individual caddies for every player.  We played at three different clubs and all three provided individual caddies, with kids carrying each of our bags.  One of the caddiemasters told us that his club employed over 300 kids as caddies and it was a great way to get any local kid that was interested involved in the game with a paying job.  We liked it as it made for a quicker pace and seemed like a lot more kids were learning the nuances of the game. However, we had not seen this at clubs in our area and wondered if it was perhaps a midwest tradition?  What have people from other parts of the country experienced?  I can tell you one thing, it took us a few holes to get used to the larger gallery watching us hit!          

[Mike McGuire]

West Bend CC in Wisconsin provides individual caddies. They are available most weekend mornings in the summer and by appointment. They also have one of the largest Evan Scholarship days in the country. Yesterday raising 100K

[PThomas]

Ravisloe in suburban Chicago provides indiv. caddies as well

[Gary_Nelson]

I didn't realize that caddying was anything other than one caddy for one golfer.  

Caddies carrying doubles earn more money but do less for the golfer.  I never understood the attraction from the golfer's standpoint.  Might as well take a pull-cart or drive a real cart.  It costs less and is less distracting.  

What's the point of a caddy carrying for two guys?  He's just gonna give you a couple clubs, estimate a distance (maybe), then do the same for your partner.  Where is the benefit other than the feel-good fuzzy logic?

[Chris Holcombe]

Gary: I think many clubs just do not have enough caddies to go around.

[Gary_Nelson]

Chris,

I think that clubs that don't have enough caddies to go around are ones that don't guarantee caddies can make money for showing up.   Caddies soon quit if there are a lot of days showing up, not getting a loop, and going home empty-handed.  Caddies show up in droves (and bring their friends) if they know there is money to be made.

IF clubs are serious about a caddy program, they have to guarantee that EVERY caddy is on the course before a golf cart gets rented.

[Kyle Harris]

If a caddying carrying double isn't serving the golfers as much as he would be carrying single... he shouldn't be doubling. At least that's how I was trained.

[Gary_Nelson]

Shivas,

I agree that caddy wages are way out of line.  Five hours work at minimum wage ($5.25) plus tip (20%) should be in the neighborhood of $32.  Even this modest rate is double the cost of a cart rental.

The $70 market rate... is that for regular caddies or the higher level ones?  

Maybe golfers at private clubs don't blink at a $$$ premium for walking.  Maybe they are just lazy.  Who knows.

I just don't think you can have a solid caddy program without guaranteed revenue for the workers.

Kyle,
What happens when the two golfers hit to opposite sides of the fairway?  A double-carrying caddy can't clone himself.  There has to be some reduction in services rendered when carrying doubles.

[Jim Sweeney]

Kyle is right.

Two caddies carrying double and working as a team can do as much for their golfers as single caddies, perhaps more if they know what they're doing.

Unfortunately, most of the single caddies I've employed have been little more than bag toters. I think that is because caddie programs demand less of them- they don't have to work too hard, as long as they "show up, keep up, and shut up." Yet they still expect "Honor Caddie" tips.

We used to work really hard carrying double, including one guy going ahead to forecaddie on every hole. I haven't seen that from caddies in twenty years.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Just got back from a trip to California where my four caddied rounds cost me $75, $75, $90, and $95.  The second round caddie at $55 plus tip who was double looping was the best caddie my playing partner and I have ever had.  We had a great time with this guy.  With the way I was hitting it off the tee he certainly earned his money!  But to be honest, if I could have played at this course without the mandatory caddie I would have.  Now if the caddie fee was $25 as it was last year at a premiere Northern Ohio course, I would be much more inclinded to choose to take a caddie.  The last round at $95 ($70 plus mandatory $25 tip) was a rip off in comparison to the $55 plus tip "pro" we had earlier in our trip.  Back in the Eastern US the caddie fees on average seem to be a lot less, and in Canada you'd have a hard time finding a caddie at any price.  

[Sean_A]

Perhaps many caddies are actually bag carriers because members don't need the info.  They know the course.  Presumably a member will help out guests with info if needed.  

Coming from Detroit I have rarely seen a double.  In my experience, 99% of the time one gets singles and all they are usually good for is carrying.  These are just kids looking for a buck.  I don't mind because I have never really enjoyed talking over shots with professional caddies because I am either not good enough to use the knowledge or I can see for myself what is happening with the hole.  

The last caddy I had was at Pinehurst.  This guy drooled over my pencil bag with 8 spanners in it.  "Let me guess" he said, "you carry".  He unzipped the pockets and found four balls.  Senior Lopez then chuckled quitely to himself and started to find out handicaps for betting.  Despite the unseasonably hot and humid weather, Chick did not take his jumper off.  A day in the park for $85.  He was good and entertaining, but not anywhere near worth over $20 per hour plus snack lunch.  Give me a kid who likes to play in the pond anytime!

Ciao

Sean

[Jim_Bick]

Caddies are always more expensive than carts and are almost never justified by knowledge. At most private clubs, they exist because the members have decided to tax themselves. They do this because they feel caddies are part of a tradition of the game they want to preserve, even though it is an economic anachronism. Also, they look at it as giving something back to the community in terms of jobs for kids (mostly) and less fortunate adults.

Except for beginners who get paid less for a very short time, doubles serve to reduce the caddy premium.

Resorts are a different story and more about what the customer perceives as high-end.

[Nick Pozaric]

for those of you that metioned carrying single bags, how many caddy rounds or caddies for that matter does the course have?

[Gary_Nelson]

Edgewood Country Club, circa 1980
50 - 75 caddies on weekend mornings filled up the sign-in sheet at the caddyshack.
All caddies had to get a loop before anyone could get their second loop.  If things were really slow (rain), caddies not getting a loop on Saturday were given priority on the list for Sunday morning.

[blasbe1]

I disagree with the idea that a double looper cannot provide a good and valuable service, after caddying as a kid for 10 yrs., I was rather adapt and carrying doubles, and quite frankly would have done something else if I was only getting a single bag.  

The good loops then were paying 40/bag and if you had 2 on a cart you made 100 bucks, figure time before loop and after and you're at the club for 6 hours, in NY and annualized over the entire 12 month year it's below the poverty line.  

If I made 700/wk cash I had a great week, if it rained badly I could make 200/week.  

Today at our club it's 50/bag, no extra gratuity is permitted and all of our A caddies carrying doubles, play permitting.  

If they were relagated to 50 bucks for 5 hours I'd tell them to go find another job with steady hours.  The problem with caddying is that it's sporadic and you have to figure in the opportunity cost for passing up other steady paying work.

There's nothing wrong with double bags.  

 

 
 

[JLahrman]

But Shiv, a poverty-line job with no fixed schedule is one custom made for teenagers who don't have a great idea of how to caddy.  I don't think you can expect top of the line service if you're only going to pay minimum wage.  From how many other minimum-wage positions do you expect a great deal of knowledge and excellent service?

A lot of clubs don't have to have knowledgable caddies.  The members know the course, they know what they're going to hit, they know how to read the greens, and they're not interested in paying for any extra knowledge.  The caddies do not make good money, nor do they need to know a lot about what makes a really good caddy.  Clubs I've been at typically have a few top-of-the-line caddies for low-handicap and important guests.

Caddies that know what they're doing (know how and when to forecaddy, are good at reading greens, can help with club selection, can walk off accurate yardages, etc.) need to have either a lot of training or a good deal of experience, need to understand what makes an excellent caddy, and need to be incentivized.  This is not the background of a poverty line job.

[Doug Siebert]

Jim Bick,

Carrying double would reduce the "caddy premium" if they didn't charge double when they carried double.  That's what they were doing when I was in Ireland last year, and some places said the caddies refused to go out carrying single!  Needless to say I carried my bag most of the time there, which I prefer anyway because I don't benefit from having them perform the physical act of carrying, and only get a caddy who is useful and/or entertaining about 10% of the time.

What Jason, Kyle and other former caddies are missing is that you guys probably DID provide superior service.  You love golf, or you wouldn't be on this board talking about caddies instead of using the Internet for the purpose it was invented, porn  Most caddies aren't like you guys, which is why there are plenty of us who don't think they are worth anything like the rates they get, and care for mandatory caddie courses even less than we care for mandatory carts.

If you couple the very high (for their age) and in cash wages caddies can make today with the ability to set your own hours to some extent and work outside, you get a lot of kids caddying who are probably only doing it for the money.  If it paid a smaller, and what many of us feel is more appropriate wage, it'd only attract the kids who really loved the game, and for whom the playing privileges on some top quality courses was the extra compensation they feel makes it worth it versus getting the same wages for a job flipping burgers at Mickey-D's.

If there really was a difference between junior and senior caddies at most places other than how long you have been there, so you could pay a minimum wage for a guy who is essentially a well behaved bag carrier, up to paying whatever for someone who could make the most demanding plus handicap prima donna happy.  If caddies were rated with feedback like Ebay sellers are, you'd know whether you want to pay $25 to some guy to cart your clubs around or $100+ to a guy who could impress even cynical bastards like me with his knowledge and ability.

If I am lucky enough to play some dream course like ANGC, CPC or PV you can damn well bet I'd be happy to spend on a really top flight caddie, because a really good caddie could make the experience even better.  But given that there is no way to tell what you are going to get, unless my host knew the caddies and could make sure I got a really good one, then if it were left up to me I'd carry my own bag and hope there was a Strokesaver booklet for sale in the clubhouse!

[Jim_Bick]

Doug,

I made a point in distinguishing between regular private club caddy programs and high end resorts. Irish and Scottish courses dealing with the American golf tourist are in the resort category. You're exactly right in describing your experience.

Jason and JAL are on target in describing the economic reality, whether or not we think kids these days should be happy with less. I'm still having trouble getting them to understand that I walked 5 miles to school uphill both ways. (smilie, if I knew how)

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