[TEPaul]

"....Alison, Flynn, Ross, Robert White, Tilly,"

Tom MacW:

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by angular architecture but those ones mentioned were not practitioners of angular architecture as I think of it, unless you're referring to the fact that all golf architecture does have some from of angle or another somewhere within it.

[T_MacWood]

TE
I'm not a Robert White expert, but from what little I've seen, his designs appear to have had an angular engineered quality. Alison throughout his career exhibited a contructed/erected angular quality...very simple and clean (the exception being his Japanese work which was aetypical)...his style is really nothing like Colt. The picture I included is very typical of Alison.

Early Ross (courses like Brae Burn, Scioto and Inverness) and early Tilly (courses like Somerset Hills, Essex County and Shawnee) has more in common with Macdonald or Emmet (angular with fairly sharp edges) than with there own work in the 1920's.

I'll let you expound on how Flynn's style evolved.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

#7 LeCumbre....Thomas?

[TEPaul]

Early Ross (courses like Brae Burn, Scioto and Inverness) and early Tilly (courses like Somerset Hills, Essex County and Shawnee) has more in common with Macdonald or Emmet (angular with fairly sharp edges) than with there own work in the 1920's."

Tom MacWood:

That'd certainly stand to reason as most all architects in that very early time when those courses you mentioned (all basically before WW1) were built had not really evolved very far from an engineered and angular look in architecture.

My own course's design (1916) is probably a perfect representation of how angular Ross was then compared to where he evolved to in about 5-7 years (original LuLu is an even better representation of that). Same with Tillinghast. If you want to see something truly amazing you should see George Thomas's Marion Mass architecture compared to where he got to about 10-15 years later in style.

It's just always seemed odd to me that Macdonald, Raynor and Banks never evolved their style beyond that engineered, angular look. However, I think the reasons why are probably pretty obvious and probably best expressed by that cliche---"Why fool with a good thing?" (something that was known to sell!).

Alison---I know very little about his architecture except lots of photos of the remarkable Hirono and what he did at PVGC which was most definitely not angular. Matter of fact, his mission for the 1921 PVGC Advisory Committee appeared to be to remove some of features at PVGC that really were too rudimentary and probably angular---such as a few of Crump's original green contours as well as a few unsightly mounds and bunkers.  

[T_MacWood]

TE
I've played Little Marion. Alison had is own unique style, simple and clean with built up or erected features, often on a big scale. Less angular than Raynor or Banks, but defintely an engineered or constructed quality especially in contrast to the naturalistic work of Colt and MacKenzie. I suspect he was influenced by the American style.

[T_MacWood]

The correct answers so far:

#1 Macdonald (NGLA)
#2
#3 Tillinghast (Baltusrol)
#4 Strong (Inwood)
#5
#6
#7 Flynn (Cascades)
#8 Banks (Knollwood)
#9 Ross (CC of Havana)
#10
#11 Langford (Lawsonia)
#12 Braid/Hutchison (Gleneagles)
#13

Only a few missing....Mark C got an amazing number of them right.

[Jay Cox]

Is 13 Raynor?  It looks like #13 at Yale.

[Andy Hughes]

Tom, do you happen to know which hole at Inwood that is in pic 4?  I played there several years ago, and that doesn't look familiar to me?

[T_MacWood]

That is the 18th at Inwood taken from the side. The last picture is not Raynor or Yale.

The architects remaining to be identified are Raynor, Emmet, Robert White, Travis and Alison.

[TEPaul]

"TE
I've played Little Marion."

Tom MacWood:

Well, then you can't help but see it's style is something akin to a five year old Picasso on crayons!

"Alison had is own unique style, simple and clean with built up or erected features, often on a big scale. Less angular than Raynor or Banks, but defintely an engineered or constructed quality especially in contrast to the naturalistic work of Colt and MacKenzie. I suspect he was influenced by the American style."

I concur with all that. Although I'd say that Alison with some of his architecture used a style not unlike the way he drew--the lines appeared sort of elongated and stretched in somewhat of a flowing style. A few of his PVGC greens in an overall sense are that way when viewed from the fairway appraoch---eg #6, #9 right and #11!

[T_MacWood]

The answers:


#1 Macdonald (NGLA)



#2 Alison (Burning Tree)



#3 Tillinghast (Baltusrol)



#4 Strong (Inwood)



#5 Raynor (Mountain Lake)



#6 Emmet (Riddels Bay)



#7 Flynn (Cascades)


#8 Banks (Knollwood)



#9 Ross (CC of Havana)


#10 Travis (Columbia)



#11 Langford (Lawsonia)



#12 Braid/Hutchison (Gleneagles)



#13 White (Wolf Hollow)

[SPDB]

Tom -
What hole is that at Mtn Lake - is it 8? I can't really tell if I'm looking at the fairway of one hole and the green of another.

Thanks again, I love these contests. This one had me flat stumped.

[T_MacWood]

Sean
I'm not sure what hole that is at Mountain Lake...the caption only says Water Hole at Mountain Lake (1934).

Here is a bonus picture which is a stumper...an architect who is often discussed on this site but not known for angular architecture.

[TEPaul]

SPDB:

I can't figure out what hole that is at Mountain Lake either. I'd like to see Tom MacWood put a date on when that photo was taken as I have a funny feeling it may be from the tee (now obsoleted) of the old 9th hole to the original 9th green which is now the 8th green before Banks came in and built the present 9th hole and green.

That photo above is just way too unclear. It looks as much like a modern train passing by as a golf hole to me.  

Tom MacWood:

You seem to be very interested in others identifying who built old architecture. Are you interested in trying to do that? If you are then why wouldn't you want to take Jason Blasberg up on his offer to you to go to Sewane to try to identify what there is Emmet?

[T_MacWood]

TE
I'm not planning on being in NYC any time soon; why don't take my place. Jason said Emmet's routing is in place, but the features are largely gone....if you are interested in genuine Emmet features let me recommend St.Georges and Huntington, perhaps after visiting Seawane.

Would it matter if it was clear photo or not?

[TEPaul]

"Would it matter if it was clear photo or not?"

Why don't you take a stab at that question all by yourself while at the same time asking yourself if it's ever mattered to you what anyone else thinks about anything?

[SPDB]

alright, alright...break it up.

Whether Tom M's photos are clear or not, they are a joy to look at and I, for one, encourage him to post more of these quizzes. I don't care about his motivation.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MacWood,

There is a wonderful picture of the 18th at Inwood, hanging in the clubhouse, taken when Bobby Jones fired a 2-iron into the green to win the 1923 US Open.

The picture clearly shows the 18th green going right up to the water, as does your posted photo.

I was disappointed that Tom Doak didn't restore that feature when he undertook the Inwood project, especially in light of the historical significance of the hole and green in American golf.

Now, perhaps Tom Doak proposed a restoration of the green right up to the water, but the members didn't go along with it.
I'd certainly like to know whose call it was, and I'd certainly like to see that feature restored.   It places tremendous pressure on the golfer when forward hole locations are used,  versus today's version.

Perhaps, Brad Klein can provide some historical insight since he grew up caddying there, and Tom Doak can provide some info with respect to why the green wasn't restored to its 1923 configuration.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Tom MacWood-

Which hole is represented in the Burning Tree photo?  
I don't recognize it--then again, Trent Jones and Art Hills  
did work here.  Wayne, Craig, Tom Paul and I had a meeting with a senior member this past summer who told us about some of the changes.  

Actually, while you're at it, do you have any old photos of #11, before the Beltway was built?  The line of play to the green was different--this was something we all talked about--as this particular green has the most severe slope of all on the course.  

[Doug Siebert]

Where is Wolf Hollow?  Is that lovely hole still around?  Anyone got any more modern pics?

Or maybe what I think are sand blowouts are just poor contrast in a very old B&W pic

[T_MacWood]

DougB
That is the short par-3 3rd which survived. I don't know if I have any pictures of the original 11th. The 10th was originally longer and snaked back to the left slightly (kind of a double dogleg). The 10th green and 11th tee were farther up towards the highway. I would estimate the angle of the old approach to the 11th was 45 degrees to the right.

DougS
Wolf Hollow and the hole have survived, it is currently the 4th at Water Gap CC in Pennsylvannia. I do believe that was a blowout. Here is drawing of the hole when the bunkers were more formalized.



Forgive me for the quality of my pictures and scanning ability (or lack of).

[T_MacWood]

Pat
If ever a course would benefit from clearing out trees it is Inwood. The old pictures show a golf course that was totally open to the elements....if fully restored it would become one of the unique courses in America.

[TEPaul]

SPDB:

I should say I'm definitely not quesitoning Tom MacWood's motivation in posting these fascinating old hole photographs and I certainly encourage him to continue to post as many as he can, I simply said the last one is so unclear to me I can't even tell it's a golf hole. What it looks like to me is a grainy black and white of something like the commercial building pad Gil Hanse had to figure out what to do with at Applebrook.

[Mike_Cirba]

OH MY GAWD!!  

I've played the 13th at Wolf Hollow (now the 4th at Water Gap CC) and I didn't recognize it.

That's probably because you'd be in tears if you saw what it looks like now.  

It's not quite as bad as what was done to the 12th at Whitemarsh Valley (a similar type of par three in many ways), but time and man's hand have not been kind.

[Andy Hughes]

There is a wonderful picture of the 18th at Inwood, hanging in the clubhouse, taken when Bobby Jones fired a 2-iron into the green to win the 1923 US Open.

Pat, is that green still anything like Tom's picture? I don't recall it being nearly that deep, or having anything like that shape.  
Also, how the game has changed: I am not long, and I hit much less than a 2-iron in.

OH MY GAWD!!

Yeah, I had the same reaction!! I had to go back and look at that pic several times. I believe a tree or two have sprouted up since that picture was taken, and the bunkering has, um, changed
Its been lottsa years, but I played Water Gap maybe a half-dozen times years ago and there is NO way I would ever have guessed it right. Fond memories of the course though--first time I ever broke 80
Feels like an old museum piece somehow

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()