The five par-5 and five par-3 course set-up

[Thomas Dai]

A bunch of par-5's is what ladies/girls play most of the time and what are effectively par-5's are played by older folk and shorter hitters all the time. 5-8-5 or 6-6-6 is fine by me and a Boeing 7-4-7 would be okay too. A key element would be difference in length of the par-3's in particular, tricky green complexes and angles too.
Atb

[Matt MacIver]

My home course (25 years old) has this mix.  The land was originally swamp-like so I'm told they brought a lot of dirt in for fill, and created several ponds, before they routed the course, and the housing. So I'm guessing it was a choice to do the 5-3 & 5-5 concept and not dictated by the land but it's a good question I might try to find the answers to.


Aside from OB left and right on every hole, the 3's are awfully hard with four over water. The card puts all of them within one club length of each other, so unless the grounds crew or pro shop move them around they all pretty much play the same distance, since there isn't much appreciable wind factor on an average day. So that part stinks.


Of the par 5's, three are true 3-shotters while the other two might be par 4.5's if you hit a great drive, but given all the hazards around the greens the smartest play is likely to lay up, which is boring. We've started to make our 2nd shot landing areas a bit more interesting (pot bunkers at 100 yards out) which is cool, but they really just add  to the difficulty since we've added a challenge without easing somewhere else. So, more strategic, more harder.


The par 4's have some variety and there are birdies to be had on nearly all of them, so no fuss there.

[BCowan]

I haven't read every post on this thread but I'm pretty sure Willie Park Jr used this configuration often.  Sylvania CC and Red Run both have this configuration.  2 of the 3 Park Jr courses that I have played have them. 

  I would also add that I like the configuration and narrowing of fairways has probably ruined people's views of this.  Hitting a solid 3 wood or long iron to lay up for a proper angle for ones 3rd shot isn't much different than lag putting imo. 

[Sam Morrow]

We have this setup at Walden.

[Marty Bonnar]

I have always felt that the most boring shot in golf, generally, is the second shot on a par-5 where one can't go for the green.

... and therein, surely, lies the very heart of the challenge of golf course design.
I agree with your general thought and can certainly attest to the boredom of the second shot thrash along a dull fairway to a spot for a pitch to the green!
BUT
What if we accepted the notion that there are players out there who, while they will never be able to reach that green in two, might still be interested in accepting a challenge on that shot which will be interesting, fun and/or rewarding in some way.
Say, for example we built the 'I'll be in Scotland afore ye' hole. This might have a common lz1 for all players (tee-dependent), then offers 'high road' and 'low road' options for the next shot which would perhaps say, either give a great view of the green from lz2(a) which is difficult to get to or a blind/tricky approach from the easier lz2(b) option. Good player X of course goes for the green!
That way, average player 'Y' could choose, depending on how he's playing that day, to attempt whichever challenge he feels he's capable of overcoming - and stays engaged!
Long-winded explanation (that looks more like a maths equation!) of a very simple idea, but hopefully you get the drift/can visualise the notion.

F.

[Tom_Doak]

I have always felt that the most boring shot in golf, generally, is the second shot on a par-5 where one can't go for the green.

... and therein, surely, lies the very heart of the challenge of golf course design.
I agree with your general thought and can certainly attest to the boredom of the second shot thrash along a dull fairway to a spot for a pitch to the green!
BUT
What if we accepted the notion that there are players out there who, while they will never be able to reach that green in two, might still be interested in accepting a challenge on that shot which will be interesting, fun and/or rewarding in some way.

Martin:


You're from Scotland, man ... most courses don't even have three par-5's over there, and some don't have any!


I understand that it's possible to make par-5's that are interesting through and through, but the sort of hole you are describing tends to compound the errors of the average player, leading to big numbers.  It's okay to have a hole or two like that in a round but I'm not excited about five or six of them!

[A.G._Crockett]

Tot Hill Farm (Strantz) has five par-5 and 5 par-3 holes; don't think it was mentioned earlier in the thread.

BTW, I played there yesterday in the 6th annual Mike Strantz Memorial Tournament to raise money for the Hollings Cancer Center.  Had the pleasure of meeting Mike's family, and spending a great day for a great cause.

[Ken Moum]

  There are lots of great courses that have 10 or more par-4 holes that are each outstanding in their own right.  There aren't so many that have even 4 outstanding par-5 holes.

No better example than Elie... With 16 par fours.

At the other extreme, the ladies card at Royal Dornoch features FIVE par fives on the back nine alone.

My wife thinks someone there prefers the women on Struie.

K