[johnk]

In the denouement after Friday's shellacking, I saw a
graphic listing the future courses for the RC in the US.  Given
that the PGA chooses these, and they've already made plans
through 2016!!, I can safely predict that the US won't
win the Ryder Cup for at least 16 years.

- The Euro's won't lose on their home courses, which they
play regularly: K-Club, Celtic Manor, Gleneagles.

- The US won't win on the PGA sites which most US players
will have NEVER played on: Valhalla, Medinah and Hazeltine.

If the PGA cares not to cause the event to lose interest, they will do one or more of the following:
 - Allow the US team to add any type of *American* player (North, South, Central, etc.)
 - Change the rota to include a course that starts with TPC
 - Change the format of the match to allow presses to count.  You could press a whole day, part of the day, a match, a few holes, etc...
 - Make a deal with the PGATOUR to split revenue and have regular tour events at the RC course with mandantory attendance for anyone who wants to be on the team.

[John_Conley]

Considering the future events scheduled for Valhalla and Hazeltine, I'm guessing most of the top touring professionals in the world will be quite familiar.

U.S. wins the next one in a surprise turnaround.  No way they'll go in as the media's "favorite" now.

[THuckaby2]

That's interesting, John... you make a darn good case that we may not win any RC's in the next 16 years.  So we are now facing what the Brits, and then Irish, faced when this competition first started.  Hmmmmmm.....

That is depressing.

But we shall soldier on.  I can't see swallowing the pride and asking for help just yet.

TH

ps - I'm with John C re next one - we go in as underdogs, hopefully have some new young blood, win in an "upset."

[johnk]

John C, Valhalla is 2008, and Hazeltine is after Medinah.  I think you're over-estimating the chances of players from 2000 and 2001 remembering anything about thoses courses.  Also, tour careers at the top level aren't really that long.

[JakaB]

My delete button broke so this is the best I can do until I get home..

[A.G._Crockett]

I think the chances for a U.S. win might be greatly enhanced by tweaking the selection process to get a team more on form.  Cink was the only U.S. player to have won since May, and several hadn't really played particularly well all year.

Additionally, golf is a really hard game to play as the favorite, IMHO, and we certainly won't have THAT problem in the near future!  In fact, much of the favorite status this time was based on the perceptions created by the world rankings, which obviously have problems.

By the way, if I am selected captain (though I would be a dark horse at best right now), Chris Riley is toast!  For a 27 yr. old county clubber to tell the captain that he is "mentally tired" after 36 holes in 24 hours may be the single most pathetic thing I have ever heard!  Thank God he rested up Sat. afternoon so he would be fresh for a 3 and 2 butt-kicking to Ian Freaking Poulter!  Finding a way to deal with THAT mentality might go a long, long way to making the matches more competitive.

Did Hogan ever beg off with Walter Hagen?
How about Palmer with Hogan as captain?

Jeez...

[THuckaby2]

Well said and absolutely right on, AGC.  I couldn't believe it when I heard that about Riley.  Interesting also was that on The Golf Channel, they asked Tony Jacklin if he had experienced this in the past with the Euro team and he said he had - and it was Langer himself who once was trying to beg out of an afternoon match.  Jacklin said he told Langer he was the best player on his team, he needed him, his country needed him, and he just damn well had to play.  The result - according to Jacklin - was that it pumped up Langer considerably, and he went out and played well.

Now of course Sutton couldn't have told Riley he was our best player with a straight face.  But he could have pumped him up by saying Riley with Tiger was the best team we had - a very fair assessment - and he damn well had to play.  Methinks Sutton was all too quick to accept Riley's beg out and should have shown a little toughness a la Hagen and Hogan.  Oh Sutton did complain about it - to the press - but couldn't he have done a better job of getting Riley's butt out there?

But it's all speculation now, anyway.

And it is sad that 27 year olds beg off for exhaustion.  Maybe my crusade for new young blood isn't the answer after all?

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

What are the odds of Shivas pulling together 12 locals for the event at Medinah?

[John_Conley]

John C, Valhalla is 2008, and Hazeltine is after Medinah.  I think you're over-estimating the chances of players from 2000 and 2001 remembering anything about thoses courses.  Also, tour careers at the top level aren't really that long.

My bad then.  I thought both got the Ryder Cup after their next PGA.

[Mike Benham]

What are the odds of Shivas pulling together 12 locals for the event at Medinah?

Just yesterday, I was speaking with the America's Guest and he brought light to an interesting view of the future US Ryder Cups, just who will be on the team?

Tiger was the youngest (29) on the team while some of the rookies were anything but young (Riley 31, Funk 48, Dimarco 36, Campbell 30, Pery 44) and the key veterans (Mickelson 35, DLIII 40, Toms 37 and Furyk 34) are in their tweener years.

The Euros were noticeably younger (Sergio 24, Padraig, 33, Westwood 33, Clarke 36, Donald 26, Howell 29, and Casey 27) and even their elder statesman Monty, at age 41 probably has a couple of Ryder Cups left in him before he becomes the Captain.  

Who on the horizon do you see as being a Ryder Cupper for the US team over the next 2-6 years?  No young guns jump out at me ...

It may not be the courses that they play that dooms future US Ryder Cup hopes, but the horses they bring to play.

[Brian_Ewen]

JohnK
If I remember right , the Celtic Manor course that will hold the Ryder Cup hasnt been built yet .

JohnC
The newspapers and articles I read , Europe was favourites this time .

The British Bookmakers have USA and Europe joint favourites for the next Ryder Cup ( 9/1 the draw).

Brian

[Brian_Gracely]

Who on the horizon do you see as being a Ryder Cupper for the US team over the next 2-6 years?  No young guns jump out at me ...

Tiger Woods, Bill Haas, Hunter Mahan, Ryan Moore, Chad Campbell, Zach Johnson, David Toms, Justin Leonard, Jonathan Byrd....Michelle Wie (well, NBC does love a good rating )

[A.G._Crockett]

As to the age of the respective teams, a few years ago the same things were being said about the age of the core of the Euros.  Faldo, Woosnam, Ballesteros, Langer were aging, and the U.S. team was much younger.  Many believed that the Cup would not be competitive, but not in the direction that has come about!

Also, as I was once told at a golf lesson, the clubs and balls don't know how old the golfer is!  Montgomerie, and to a lesser extent, Haas, handled themselves pretty well as "elder statesmen."

[John_Conley]

2006 Medinah
2009 Hazeltine

[Steve_Lemmon]

My crackpot theory for the day:   The US underperforms vs. the Europeans because of their wives.  The US wives are a prominent force on the US side, attending dinners, planning events, attending some team meetings, wearing uniforms, and telling their husbands how to win a golf tournament.  I recall one such wife talking about how "We worked so hard to win."  That is nice, but a little different from what makes these guys perform so well in a tournament.   I may be ignorant on this subject, but it seems to me that the wives of the Euros are not as ubiquitous during the Ryder Cup.  

[Mike Hendren]

You guys are forgetting Christian Greco, or as he will soon be known "The Future."

What? Did you think he's grow up to be a dentist?

MIke

[Brian_Gracely]

The other key to this is bad clothes....  

Kiawah - red pants
Brookline - Sunday shirts

Stop letting the captain's wife pick the outfits.  Get all the guys to dress like Duffy Waldorf or Aaron Baddeley and they will be so damn embarrassed that we'll be forced to play well.

[Dan King]

I have some thoughts on how to make the Ryder Cup competitive again.

• Tony Jacklin for U.S. captain. I know, he isn't born and raised in the U.S. but he's lived in Florida a real long time. They say none of the recent captains can deal with egos like Tiger Woods. Jacklin dealt with Seve Ballesteros and Nick Faldo on the same team -- and won. He's proven he can win and he knows how to motivate the players. Sure it's a drawback that we are stealing a European idea, but wouldn't it be cool to bash them with one of their own.

I could see Jacklin doing the opposite of what he did for Europe to get them ready. Everyone flies coach, sleeps two to a room and fights over the best bagels for breakfast. Maybe he'll even bring back plastic shoes.

• I've seen lots of ideas on how to get the hot players for the Ryder Cup. Almost everyone says go from a two-year point system to a one-year system. Why not a one-week system? Have a qualifying event on the course you are going to play the event on the week before. Eight golfers are decided at this event with the other four being captain's pick -- just in case Tiger Woods  has jet trouble that week and can't make it to Ireland for qualifying. The captain can tell him he is going to be a captain's pick if he doesn't make the team but get him to try just to ensure he gets enough captain's picks.
• Increase foursome and four-ball matches to six a session. Europe will no longer be able to hide their weaker players and U.S. will feel good about nobody being left off. Chris Riley will also go in expecting to play five matches so hopefully he will be ready -- and hopefully not be scared of foursomes by then.
• And yes, give up on this highlighting special courses in the U.S. and play at a TPC. PGA TourŪ is moving toward exclusive TPC schedule so this is the only sort of course U.S. players know how to play. Aim down the center and hit as hard as you can. Aim for the middle of the green and make the 20-footer for birdie on the perfectly manicured flat green. After a week at Oakland Hills the U.S. players were as clueless on how to hit the 18th fairway as they had been at the beginning of the week.

Cheers,
Dan King

At a Ryder Cup press conference in 1967 with captain Ben Hogan:
Press: "Mr. Hogan, is it true Arnold [Palmer] isn't playing tomorrow?"
Hogan:  "That's what the pairing says."
Press: "Could you tell us why?"
Hogan: "I could, but I won't."

[Steve Pozaric]

I would also vote to change course setup to make it more like a normal PGA tour event - not so penal rough, etc.  I think that might help (if nothing else, it probably wouldn't hurt).

[ForkaB]

Great Stuff, Dan!

I have a slightly different way to insure that all our guys get to play on Fri. and Sat.  In the 4-balls, have our top 4 guys play the Euros by themselves in the morning.  I'm sure that Tiger, Phil, Davis and whoever is our #4 could play better alone than they did with partners.  Could you see the look on Monty and Padraig's face if Tiger waxed them all by himself?  Then, in the afternoon put out 8 fresh faces, specifically selected and trained for foursomes play (Chris Riley need not apply).  By the time they got to Sunday, the Euros would be toast.

[Mike Benham]

On top of Dan and Rich, the US should take the scheduling of the RC to the next level, ala the Davis Cup and Major League Baseball ...

1.  Schedule the matches on course not to the Euro's liking, like in the desert or in Florida and on Bermuda ... yes, in September ... (of course, the downside is that you have to find a course that the Amero's like ...)

2.  Designated Putter - select a boss of the moss, Loren Roberts or Brad Faxon ... then Huckaby's favorite golfer won't have to worry about missing another 5-footer ...

 

[Brian_Gracely]

Mike,

You need to take it even a step further.....mid-match substitutions.  Allow the 4 players not in 4ball or 4somes to step in when an existing player can't find a fairway, can't putt, or is getting on Tiger's nerves.  

Also, only serve Miller Lite, Chicken Fingers & Fries in the Euro players lounge.  

And play it on the same courses as the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic.

[Mike_Golden]

Why do we have to change anything in the rules because the US has lost 7 out of the last 10?   Do any of you actually believe the talent level of the Europeans is so much better the the Americans?  If it was the golf course setup, there would be more Euros winning majors-how many have won one in the last 5 years?

My take on this whole thing is that the Europeans play smarter golf than the Americans-I've never seen so many shots miss to the short side of the pin where the safe side was wide open-if anything, that's a function of the Americans trying too hard to make the perfect shot.  Maybe all we need to do is have the US team watch the DVD of this year's cup before the next one just like football teams watch the game tape to fix their mistakes.

As for Chris Riley, he may have rested for Sunday but he's lost so much on the PR and respect side he will probably never recover.  If it was me you would have had to shoot me not to play with Tiger in the afternoon.  Jay Haas was clearly tired after the morning round and Chris DiMarco lost two tires and an transmission after #6 in the morning round-neither of them should have played in the afternoon.

[Jason McNamara]

1.  Schedule the matches on course not to the Euro's liking, like in the desert or in Florida and on Bermuda ... yes, in September ... (of course, the downside is that you have to find a course that the Amero's like ...)

Captain's pick:  John Huston.

Jason

[ed_getka]

Mike G brings up a great point about course management. I couldn't believe some of the stupid places our guys missed some of their shots. I think that was a sign of the pressure they perceived that they had to go for the knockout punches instead of winning with jabs.
Just clone the Sunday version of Furyk and we have no worries.

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