[johnk]

I'm looking for your favorite illusions / deceptions at Pasatiempo.

I'm playing there soon, but I don't get there often enough to remember the things that I need to know.

For example, I vaguely recall that the 2nd green has an opposite break to it, perhaps on the approach... but I'm not sure.  On 17 I recall that anything to the left of the green
is fundamentally dead, but I don't know what the good place
to be is...  These are just two examples where I could be standing there trying to puzzle out what not to do, and end up
more confused that before.

So help me out.  What are the key shots where it pays to know Pasatiempo well?

(I'm won't be using this knowledge unfairly, either

[Jeff Fortson]

It helps to keep the ball below the hole.  Especially on #8, #11, and #16.

Don't go for tucked, sucker pins.  


Jeff F.

[THuckaby2]

It helps to keep the ball below the hole.  Don't go for sucker pins.

Sorry, that is so HUGELY important at Pasa, it needed the restatement.

Beyond this, I think it was me who has harped on the "reverse break" on #2, for years.  Note that it's a moot point if you get your drive down far enough where you have a middle-short iron into the green... if that happens, go ahead and fly it in, stay right, green breaks left.  But if you are in the rough, or back farther, and need to bounce it in, well... the last 50 yards leading up to the green LOOKS like it should kick the ball to the left, but it often doesn't... there are subtle little moguls and humps, and one less subtle ridge, that often keep the ball to the right!  So sometimes the best-hit running shot leaves one scratching one's head as one thinks it should take the overall contour and come back to the left, but it doesn't happen.

Some other illusions/deceptions include:

#3 - not really an illusion, just an emphasis:  you really MUST fly the ball all the way on to the green - the ball will NOT run up that hill.

#9 - for some reason people always leave pitch shots short.  Don't be afraid to fly the ball all the way to the hole - it will stop.

#11 - people often want to lay back with 3wood or 2iron or something off that tee - DON'T. Go ahead and bash a driver as far up the hill as you can.  It looks like you could go straight through but believe me, you can't.  Tiger couldn't.  And you do want as short a shot into that green as possible, because it continues to be a LOT uphill - typically two clubs.  On the approach, short and left is fine... anything else is dead.  Long and left is often just as dead as short and right in the hazard, depending on the pin.

#16 - left of the aiming pole is FINE.  People almost always go too far right, rarely go too far left.

#17 - don't listen to shivas, the green isn't THAT bad.  In fact compared to some others it's positively flat.  That being said, yes you don't want to miss left.

That's all for now... there are others I'm sure.  It's a course full of deception.  The uphill shots really play uphill... add a lot of club.  

[Mike Benham]

I'll throw in a tip for bunker play ... most of the bunkers are considerably below the green surface or have high lips ... I would be prepared to hit high, soft bunker explosions ...

[Mike Benham]

#17 - don't listen to shivas, the green isn't THAT bad.  In fact compared to some others it's positively flat.  That being said, yes you don't want to miss left.
 

This hole always plays longer then the yardage on the card - at least an extra half club to the green, maybe more depending on the hole location.

[Peter Galea]

There is no aiming pole anymore.

Center/left center is the play.

If you doubt your prowness to get the ball to the correct level, the left bunker or just short of that is a good place to try for an up and down.
Hit the wrong level or don't get the ball all the way to the hole and you will be left chipping from divots in the very front of the green. Don't ask me how I know that.

[THuckaby2]

Really... interesting... I haven't played there since last October, so my ideas are now dated!  

I wonder why they took that out.  I guess the golf hole is famous enough that if you don't know where to aim, then screw you?

 

And you are RIGHT ON re trying to get to the proper level.  That being said, is the pin anywhere other than the top level any more?  So the whole key is that long and on the fringe is better than anything short, and that goes for approach shots, chips and PUTTS.

TH

[johnk]

Tom, you are a genius - exactly what the doctor ordered

That run in deal on #2 gets me every time!  Now I'm ready.

Now of course, I probably can't execute on any of these tips, but at least I won't be mentally anguished before said lack of execution ....

[THuckaby2]

JK - I aims to please.   But if I am a genius, the standard for such has been SERIOUSLY lowered.

 

I do love #2, for just this reason... just do remember all of this stuff about the approach shot matters only if you have to run up the shot, which you will if you are too far back or in the left rough.  I wouldn't advise CHOOSING to run it up unless it's in a "Tommy Naccarato / hit it in the Devil's A-Hole bunker just to see what happens" sort of mode.  As you can imagine, the unpredictability does lead to a worse result.

But here's more on #2... Aim RIGHT on your drive, as far right as you feel comfortable with.  If you can get it down the very right edge of the fairway, you hit some turbo-boost mounds that propel the ball WAY down there.  It's tough to do... your eye tells you to go left, as the fairway seems HUGE over there... So it requires a shot against what your eye tells you, and it has to be a long one on just the right line... but if you pull it off it is really cool, and your 180-150 shot in just became 150-120.

BTW, please do report on the progress of the work on #4, and take some pics if you can... When I was last there, they had just ripped out the tee and were starting work on the fairway.  The plans for all of the work sounded really cool to me... I'm curious how far along they are, if they aren't finished.

TH

[johnk]

You know, sometimes it's worth it to live in this nut-ball state.. a day like today makes it all worthwhile...

Pasatiempo on a weekday is $135.  That's a real Norcal golf bargain!!  it's worth every damn cent.  (paging Benham, Huckaby, Meagher, Getka, Huntley, Gib, etc.  Name your day.  

It kicks your ass and calls you back for more.  I did make some hard pars - #1, #2 and #11 were highlights...  greens were rather slow for Pasa, which messed with our minds a bit - not having any of those roll-back effects when you expect them.  They are getting ready for the USGA Women's senior Am Oct 9-12, and the fairways are as good as I've ever seen 'em.  Overall, the club has really upgraded the facility in the last 5 years.

BTW, Tiger really couldn't hit it past the end on #11 - there's now fairway past the cart path.  It's way up there...

Thanks for the advice - onto the pix:

I didn't know what you were looking for on #4, so I'm putting up one of the tee boxes, and one from about 140yds.


#4 Tee:



#4 Approach



#10 Pampas in bloom...

[Chris Perry]

4: Don't go left, it's easy to hit through into OB if you use a driver off the tee. I got lucky.

10: If you don't think you can carry to the green, lay up before the traps start, you don't want to go in there because you'll be lucky to not be playing tee-ball after, I speak from experience there.

15: Green is covered in shade so it might play slower than the rest. It was also littered with buds from the surrounding trees when I played, so some cleanup might be in order if you want to putt properly.

16: The pin WAS in the middle when I played, and your yardage must be perfect if it is. Obviously you can't be short, but I was long and was lucky to 3 putt. Pray that the pin is back.
 
17: I went left on the approach, it stayed in play but there's just no way to hold a flop if the pin is on the front lobe.

[THuckaby2]

John:

Cool pix - thanks!  Re #4, when I was last there the tee boxes were completely ripped out and we teed off at the base of the hill.  Good to see these are done and back in play.  Seems to me from the pics, the differences from the past are they are a little bit wider - which I guess was necessary due to anti-erosion - and the've been chopped into one block for blue and white, one lower block for red (or is it three separate blocks?).  Maybe that's how it was before, I just don't remember!  I don't pay much attention to red tees.  I know blue and white used to be one long level strip.

In any case from the pic they also seem to be lowered in relation to the hill, as was the plan.  Looks very cool to me.

Re #11, you'd be surprised how many people intentionally lay back off the tee... which really is not the right play, as you saw.

Now re Pasa as a bargain, well.... remember you're talking to a guy who played it 20+ times in college for $20 or less.  So everything is relative.  And yes, relative to other courses around, $135 on a weekday isn't bad.  But weekends are higher, and carts are charged on top of that, so that too adds up... Oh I know, for this great of a course golf I shouldn't be complaining, especially since as Tommy N. has reminded me many times it is semi-private and I should be thanking the stars the public is allowed on at all, but man even $135 does tend to add up, making the reality that this course that I'd sure as hell LOVE to play all the time more of a special occasion course.  Dammit.

I heard a golf channel blurb last night that Pasa's in the running for a future Solheim Cup... in competition with Rich Harvest Links near Chicago!  Interesting....

In any case, thanks for the report.

Chris:  you got a middle pin on 16?  Consider yourself very lucky, for the experience anyway.  They damn near never put it there due to the potential for people taking forever to stay on that level.

TH

[John_Conley]

Pat Mucci told me so.

[John_Cullum]

JC
I've been waiting for that one for a couple of days now.

[johnk]

On the $135, I really think it is a bargain, since most Muni's are now around $50, and the course condition, the practice area (not the range, though), the clubhouse et al, are just excellent.  The Moneterey courses cost a lot more.

Carts are a fortune, but there is a very easy answer to that
Though yesterday, I was wishing I had wore shorts by the end of hole #9.

I do wonder why it's still open to the public, since the entry fee for the club has to be well above $100k?

[Doug Sobieski]

Where is Pat Mucci to tell us all that this information is useless, and that there is NO need for any advice in advance?

Paging Pat Mucci, paging Pat Mucci. Please set all these people straight!!!!

 

[THuckaby2]

On the $135, I really think it is a bargain, since most Muni's are now around $50, and the course condition, the practice area (not the range, though), the clubhouse et al, are just excellent.  The Moneterey courses cost a lot more.

Carts are a fortune, but there is a very easy answer to that
Though yesterday, I was wishing I had wore shorts by the end of hole #9.

I do wonder why it's still open to the public, since the entry fee for the club has to be well above $100k?

John - last I heard memberships were over $300K.  It's equity, and there aren't many of them.  They are rather highly-prized, as you can imagine.  $100K doesn't get you the crap near me in San Jose.

Now re the $135 being a bargain, well... as I say it's all relative.  That's still a lot more than I can afford to pay more than a few times a year, and it still kills me given what I once paid to play all the time.  So it's likely just me.  You are correct anyway that for what you get, relative to what you pay for at a lot of other places around, it is a decent deal.

BTW, the only Monterey courses that cost more are the ones inside the drive.  All others are less, some a LOT less.  But then again, you consider what you pay for....Pasa is certainly higher quality than all of them, some comically so.  But it's not all that much better, if it is at all, than Bayonet... Which I played last weekend for $89 in a cart, with lunch and range balls included.  That to me was a good deal.  And hell yes I rode, btw - the cart was part of the $89 regardless, and it was raining.  

TH

[John_Conley]

JC
I've been waiting for that one for a couple of days now.

Sarge:

Not saying it'll help, but if you ever need me to give you a heads-up on a course I'm familiar with... well, let's just say I'll tell you everything I know in a cordial fashion!

[John_Cullum]

JC
I know I can count on you neighbor. Remember to type it in blue just for kicks.

[johnk]

Yeah, I was wondering what memberships ran.

$300k seems like a lot, since you could play there about 3 times a month on the interest from that money.  So that makes the $135 seem like an even better deal to me!  Of course, If I had bought one 5 years ago when they were $90k, I'd be pretty jazzed about it...

I'm cheap, and hate to part with the dough, but note the topline of my post with pictures - sometimes it's worth it to live in the over-priced state we live in!  Face it, golf is too damn expensive out here for average crap, so I'd rather pay more for fewer really good rounds...

BTW, I have no context on the sub-thread from the JCs about Mucci??

[THuckaby2]

JK:

No hassles.  I just want to know when memberships there were $90K.  I've been following this for a LONG time and I sure don't recall that - surely not within the last 5 years... I'm thinking not within the last 20.  

In any case that does make the $135 green fee seem reasonable, but that's only if you find $300K a reasonable price for a membership at Pasa, or ANYWHERE.  I think even $100K is ludicrous and $300K insults my intelligence.  But I do have weird ideas about these things.

As for a few rounds at high-priced places v. many rounds at lower-priced, unfortunately, I tend to love playing the game far too much to agree with you there.  So I do tend to go for the latter, and pick my splurges where I can.  It is sad how much it costs to live out here and even sadder how much it costs to play this game and the saddest part is the quandary this puts a golf-addicted guy of modest means like me in.

But yes, at times it does seem worth it.  You had one of those times the other day without a doubt.

Re the Mucci stuff, go red John Conley's thread asking for advice about Bel-Air.  Or don't.  

[Mike Benham]

No hassles.  I just want to know when memberships there were $90K.  I've been following this for a LONG time and I sure don't recall that - surely not within the last 5 years... I'm thinking not within the last 20.  

Remember that 5 short years ago was the boom in the valley and I would be shocked if memberships were $ 90k ... memberships at the beautiful Palo Alto Hills were going for close to $ 200k with huge turnover ...

JK - to make your Pasa dream even worse, in the early 80's while Huck was playing Pasa for $ 20, you could get an annual membership for $ 600 or so, Monday through Friday ...

And with a limited membership, the cash from being semi-private (or would that be semi-public) pays a lot of the maintenance and staff bills ...

[THuckaby2]

Ahhhh... what might have been.

But re the cost of memberships, I thought I had that right.  I recall the lovely Almaden CC being over $150K five years ago.  That was indeed the boom time.  But when was there ever a down time for this stuff?  If anything it's NOW, isn't it?

TH

[Mike Benham]

But when was there ever a down time for this stuff?  If anything it's NOW, isn't it?

Bottom was hit 12-18 months ago ... still not great but getting better ... (spoken like someone who is thumbing through the "help wanted" section of the paper ... )

[Brent Hutto]

It is sad how much it costs to live out here and even sadder how much it costs to play this game and the saddest part is the quandary this puts a golf-addicted guy of modest means like me in.

But yes, at times it does seem worth it.  You had one of those times the other day without a doubt.

One effect of all this is to make it seem quite reasonable to fly clear across the country and play a couple of rounds at Cuscowilla. So you've got that going for you.

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